A Pogrom in Amsterdam

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
41

Your own link, which has a hyperlink in like the first or second sentence that leads here:

And by the way, “where’s the Jews” is also pretty terrifying. Far away from anywhere the chanters can get a hold of us, I hope!

42

According to the king and prime minister of the Netherlands, as well as the mayor of Amsterdam, this was significantly more than that.

43

Considering how the pogrom was planned well in advance, no, I don’t think so.

And the original article, in Dutch:

44

In fact, we’ve had conversations on this board about the weird phenomenon of Jewish-identity-as-team-mascot among Dutch football fans:

45

Ajax fans weren’t the ones attacking Jews across the city. That was a coordinated effort, preplanned on Telegram and apparently somehow the Uber app as well.

46

…the organisers of the rally loudly condemned any anti-Semitic chants or behaviour. Surely the same way as you would condemn any anti-Muslim chants yelled out by Israeli supporters. That behaviour shouldn’t be tolerated.

47

I think I’ll wait for more information. This is sounding less and less like a random outbreak of antisemitism, though.

48

I agree. It also shouldn’t result in hordes of wannabe cossacks riding across town on scooters and beating the shit out of Israeli citizens. And it certainly doesn’t justify preemptively planning to attack the Jews on Telegram days before any chants could have even happened.

49

It does say:

For a subset of young man, violence is fun, and all they need is an excuse. Israel gave them one. Some of the Maccabi fans gave them one.

It’s wrong no matter the provocation. But Israel has given them plenty. The fact there was preexisting animus does not absolve Israel of all responsibility.

50

…I don’t think there were any pre-emptive planning to “attack the Jews.”

51

It’s also a very bizarre twist that the FC Ajax football team of Amsterdam, whose supporters were the perpetrators of the anti-Maccabi/anti-Israeli/antisemitic violence, is the team that traditionally calls itself “the Jews” and is celebrated with Jewish-associated symbolism.

52

What makes you think it was Ajax supporters?

53
54

Ajax supporters were not the perpetrators, according to Dutch police.

This wasn’t a football hooligan brawl.

55

Yeah, football hooligans are mostly white, and there is a 99% chance the attackers were Muslim immigrants or children of such.

56

Quoting Mikkel, unless I misunderstood them:

Also, just based on the fact that FC Ajax is AFAIK the largest and most successful football club of Amsterdam and of the entire Netherlands, I’m guessing that a significant proportion of almost any arbitrarily selected group of Amsterdammers includes Ajax fans.

57

This is absolutely unreal. The level of gaslighting about the motivation of the attackers that I’ve seen on Twitter and even some media outlets has been beyond insane.

This was a premeditated pogrom, planned days ahead and with attempted attacks before the game as well.

This was not a clash between rival football teams.

This will happen here too, and people I thought were allies will say nothing. I am floored.

58

I think people have little sympathy for football hooligans starting fights and trashing their city.

To the extent there was not a clash between rival football teams but actually some kind of anti-Semitic activity organized by third parties, the only correct response to Nazis is to square up and make it crystal-clear they are not welcome in your city.

59

…the primary source for the Telegram claims are locked behind a paywall and Google translate. Every other source that I’ve checked relies on the primary source and I can’t verify the details. If you’ve got an accurate timeline and screenshots or anything else, please feel free to share because that would be helpful. But outside of obviously right-aligned press outlets like the Daily Mail and the National Post, this hasn’t been picked up by the mainstream press.

60

Neutral question: if these attacks were so carefully coordinated via social media, why wasn’t interested parties monitoring and coordinating countermeasures?