This is a poll for all those who believe that abortion is o.k., but only in some situations. Those who feel that it is o.k. in any situation are welcome to post that sentiment. Those who wish to argue the issue, are kindly asked to go to your nearest GD abortion thread
Several threads about the topic of abortion have shown posters with some reservations. I thought it would be interesting to delve into these reservations a little bit.
If anybody can think of an extra situation which they think should be included, to illustrate their point of view, go ahead.
In the following situations, abortion is O.K.
yes / no
when the mother’s life is endangered.
because the mother doesn’t want to have children, and her contraceptives didn’t work.
financial reasons.
age-related reasons.
when used instead of contraception.
for any reason whatsoever.
when the mother is addicted to drugs that would be detrimental to the child (and the mother wants the abortion too)
I think it would be interesting to see what pro-choice people think is not a good enough reason (from their point of view) to have an abortion.
I am using the term O.K. in regards to people’s own opinions. If they think it is right, or wrong, not what they think the law should say. Hope that clarifies
You are missing a dimension here. Most people’s opinion depends on two factors. The first is what you’ve sorted out here, what the situation militating for and against the abortion is. The second and perhaps much more important is the developmental age of the child, e.g. practically everyone thinks it’s OK to destroy an eight-cell embryo for any purpose whatseover, and horribly wrong to kill a child an hour from birth, no matter what.
O.K, cgrayce I understand where you are coming from.
I’m referring to the people who are pro-choice with reservations. I would like to explore what those reservations are. From the way it has been phrased in past threads, I had the impression that those reservations existed even at an early stage in the pregnancy. I am not talking about late abortions, I’m talking about those situations where people have reservations about abortion because of other reasons.
Can we assume that the mother is in the early stages of pregnancy ? Thanks
because the mother doesn’t want to have children, and her contraceptives didn’t work.
Yes. She tried to prevent pregnancy and they failed. Not her fault, early pregnancy abortion okay.
financial reasons.
Depending on the severity of the financial situations, and so long as it was an early pregnancy.
age-related reasons.
Supposing those might also fall under the “mothers life is endangered” for both sides of the spectrum- too young, and her body may not be able to handle birth. Too old- same situation. Okay.
when used instead of contraception.
No, if you can pay for an abortion you can go to planned parenthood. Condoms are free, get the pill, depo, norplant, whatever. Just at least try some method of contraception before going the other route.
for any reason whatsoever.
Not exactly, you’ve gotta take some responsibility.
when the mother is addicted to drugs that would be detrimental to the child (and the mother wants the abortion too)
Yes, because the baby would be in more danger of dying and having a poor quality of life anyway.
You forgot a big one, Rape. Yes, abortion is OKAY in ANY situation involving rape. I can’t imagine making a woman look at the baby of a man who forced himself upon her.
Of course, this depends a lot on how far along the pregnancy is. I’d say that anyone who is strictly, “A baby is created as soon as the egg meets the sperm and killing it is MURDER” people, are a bit short sighted. I don’t want to put a specific blackout date on when an abortion is okay and when it is not okay, simply because I don’t know enough about pregnancy and the development of a baby, and my beliefs about abortion aren’t that serious and I am not that passionate about them. I believe in a woman’s right to choose, but if she postpones that decision to a time when a baby is undeniably a baby and not a zygote, then she should have made that decision sooner and now she has to deal with it.
I think that’s about it, I hope that is what you’re looking for Goo.
From someone who is personally against abortion (my gf, daughter, whatever gets pregnant, I would want her to keep it), but thinks the law should stay out of it…
when the mother’s life is endangered. Yes.
because the mother doesn’t want to have children, and her contraceptives didn’t work.
**Yes, if it is the fault of the contraceptive, and I don’t count the rhythm method or coitus interuptus as contraception. Unless I’ve been mislead as to the effectiveness of the aforementioned methods, there’s much more reliable methods (the pill, condoms, sponges, etc.) **
financial reasons. No. They couldn’t afford a pack of condoms? Couldn’t get something for free at Planned Parenthood? If the condoms failed, then see above.
age-related reasons. Not cut and dry here. If you consider yourself mature enough to have sex, you should be mature enough to get some contraceptives, if you used contraceptives, see #2. Otherwise, if the age could cause health issues, then we’re back to #1.
when used instead of contraception. No, definitely not.
for any reason whatsoever. Nope, see #5.
when the mother is addicted to drugs that would be detrimental to the child (and the mother wants the abortion too) Not sure, but this sounds like it could be a health issue, so I’ll slide this under #1 for now.
And as ladyfoxfyre said, rape is a good justification for abortion, and I’d like to add so is incest.
FTR, I think “financial reasons” refers to the parent(s) not being able to afford to raise the child. Same with age: mother is still a child herself, and adoption is an unattractive option because of the stigma and seclusion of being pregnant so young.
Anyway, I would say yes through #4. Beyond that, I dunno. You haven’t hit on the one that I find so difficult: Parents are married, stable, can afford the baby, are healthy. But it’s the wrong time for career reasons. That’s not quite financial (as in not being able to afford to raise the child properly).
There is something really selfish about that, to me. I guess I feel that people who have all the right resources in place to raise a baby have more of an “obligation” (for lack of a better word) to not use abortion as a solution. And it’s one reason I am very careful about contraception. We don’t want more kids. If I got pregnant, there’s no reason not to have it beyond simply not wanting it. I’d be inclined to say Fate was telling us something, and agonize over it. My husband would want me to terminate, I think. It’s not a position I want to be in, I can tell you that.
What about a birth defect in the fetus (non-fatal). Like Down’s Syndrome? That’s another one worth asking about.
IANAW(oman,but I am an 0man and thats odd) and I cant tell a woman what to do and I may very well feel differently about these things if I were. With that out of the way…
1)no. To each there own I guess and I’m one of the few that feel this way. My birthed child’s life is worth more than mine, why would my unbirthed child’s life be worth any less. I dont like that question anyway becuase it comes up SO very rarely today.
2)no. You know that having sex can produce a child. You KNOW this. Yes you use protection because you dont want children but you still KNOW that it can happen. If your not ready to have kids (physically, emotionally and financially) DONT HAVE SEX!!
3)of course not, thats just silly. the govt helps out a LOT with children if its needed. I know a woman with 2 kids no job that is going to school full time. Mostly on the govt’s dime. Some on her exhusbands. She is not going to be like that forever. She will repay her debt a thousand times over when she is a public teacher getting paid squat.
4)i dont know, thats vague
5)NO and those women should be permanatly fixed
6)no again
7)i dont know, but probably
With all that said let me say this. It SHOULD be the womans choice. There should be some restrictions but in a lot of cases it should be an option. The woman has to live with her choice for the rest of her life. Guilt can suck.
dead0man
is the only one with which I have a conflict as a “pro-choice” person. I simply don’t believe that abortion should ever be someone’s first and only contraceptive option. Having said that and having travelled a lot in this vast country of ours, I’m aware that access to cheap, reliable contraception is something I take for granted - it isn’t something available to every woman in this country (well, legally and theoretically it is, but if you live in a one doctor town in a remote area, your choices are often limited by that doctor’s viewpoints).
How in the heck do women who’s only medical option is the Royal Flying Doctor Service (and this is true for vast physical regions of Australia, even though their populations are small) even begin to deal with things like contraception, pap smears, and abortion?
Not meaning to single you out, Cranky, but this really made me interested. I understand 100% with the above paragraph, and it’s not a position I would ever hope to be in. I’m leaning towards the thought that “not wanting it” is enough (IMHO) purely because I feel there already are way too many unwanted children.
It’s interesting to see where different people draw the line on an issue that is largely personal and controversial, I’m really enjoying reading all your thoughts, as well as the other circumstances people are considering, which I didn’t outline.
Just wanted to add my voice to goo’s in saying that I do agree in part with what Cranky said. Not all women have equal options in terms of contraception and it pisses me off when women who do have those options and the money and the education to make an informed choice about them choose not to exercise them. Much as I am “pro-choice”, I do have to admit that a handful of women in my lifetime have used abortion as their only method of “contraception” purely because they can’t be bothered taking contraceptive responsibility or they were hoping to trap a man at the time or whatever. I can’t excuse their actions, but nor do I believe that a few people using our laws for very selfish purposes which abdicate them from responsibility mean that those laws shouldn’t exist at all.
No of course not. That would be the only way to ensure that you dont have children though. And you should take responsibility for it if it does happen. I dont want to get in a wreck when I drive but I know it can happen. Even through no fault of my own. I’d suck it up. I’d have to because I couldnt live with myself if I didnt. Ok, I know I’m not making any sense so I will shut up. Like I said, I’m not a woman. I dont know what its like and I know that I couldnt do that. But I’m seeing it through a man’s eyes.
dead0man
because the mother doesn’t want to have children, and her contraceptives didn’t work.
Yes.
financial reasons.
Yes.
age-related reasons.
Yes.
when used instead of contraception.
Yes, I guess.
for any reason whatsoever.
Yes. If the woman does not want to have a child for any other than the reasons above she should be able to have an abortion.
when the mother is addicted to drugs that would be detrimental to the child (and the mother wants the abortion too)
Yes.
rape or incest
Yes.
Though there should still be a set time for when it cannot be done. In Sweden I think the limit is somewhere around 20 weeks. The limit should not be lower than that.
