Or to take an example more appropriate to the SDMB - The BBQ Pit description says “If you want to flame someone, do it here.” That does not mean that we invite people to flame other posters, it means that we allow it. I personally don’t like flaming people (and have spoken up against it on occasion in the past), so I don’t flame people even though it’s allowed. It would be hypocritical of me to say “flaming people is bad” and then do it anyway.
Arnold, even if your bar analogy was a perfect one for this situation, it goesn’t get you there. Because the reason you would not be rude in that situation is not because of libertarian principles about the rights of property owners, but because of general principles about proper behaviour. Therefore, you might on that basis issue a general call for Libertarian to stop criticizing if indeed you can make a case that it is similarly rude, but it has no connection at all to his libertarian beliefs. So no hypocracy issue is involved.
Farren - yes, I think it’s rude to come to the SDMB and tell the (unpaid) moderators “You’re doing a shitty job.” Note that I speak only for myself.
IzzyR - I think it’s a logical conclusion to say “If you respect the right of a property owner to do whatever they want to on their own property, then it follows that you shouldn’t go onto their private property to tell them to their face that you object to their behaviour.” The libertarian (small l) acting according to his/her principles should stay on his/her own property and bitch about it over there.
Arnold - I disagree. The rights of a property owner have nothing to do with the proper activity of someone who is not infringing on those rights.
Ah-ha! I think we have just isolated the crux of our disagreement.
My argument (and I believe Lib’s as well, though I can’t speak for him) is not that the Mods are doing a “shitty job”. Hell, I susupect you’d be hard pressed to find many more pro-mod posters than Lib or me.
I agree it’s rude to criticise the Mods. But I’m not (and I don’t believe Lib is either.) I, at least, am suggesting that the rules be changed. I’m not upset that you’re enforcing the current rules fairly and well, I just think that GD would run better with the rules modified.
I don’t believe that suggesting that the rules be changed ist criticizing the Mods any more than lobbying to change the speed limits is criticising policemen.
And from a libertarian perspective, I believe it would be incumbent on the property owner to forbid criticism on their property if it offended them. It would certainly be rude, but libertarianism isn’t concerned with rudeness or lack thereof any more than any other political philosophy is. I believe a libertarian would say “If you don’t want criticism on your property, say so and the law should protect your right to that stance.”
Fenris
IzzyR says “Arnold - I disagree.” - Right back atcha! The proper (as in well-mannered) activity of someone proclaiming the absolute rights of property owners is to refrain from criticizing the behaviour of another person when invited onto that other person’s property and using her facilities.
Fenris - did I ever say you were rude? No I did not. (awaiting the other cascade of posters asking “were you talking about me? what about me?”) Concerning the second point - I was not discussing the rights a libertarian would have, I was discussing what a polite and logically consistent libertarian would do. Instead of “You can do whatever you want on your own property, but…” I would expect the libertarian to say “You can do whatever you want on your own property (period).”
Fen and Izzy have explained the libertarian view better than I could. The libertarian ethic is noncoercion. If I have initiated force or fraud against you, then you could properly call me a hypocrite.
Frankly, what I find ironic is that the person who is drawing for others the distinction between insulting a post and insulting a poster cannot himself see the difference between criticizing a rule and criticizing a moderator.
I believe it was in this very thread that I said the mods do a great job. In fact, I have never said that the mods do not do a good job. Not ever. I have consistently defended the rights of the mods and admins to do as they wish. In fact, I’ve been Pitted for defending TubaDiva by an appeal to emotion. With one exception, I believe that the mods here are the best anywhere.
(And no, I won’t say which one. And no, it isn’t DavidB.)
You can criticize all the rules you want Libertarian. That’s one of the purposes of this forum.
:: cascading down ::
Arnold you were talking about me weren’t you??? ** (it’s always about me… )
** just didn’t want you to be disappointed that no one took up your gauntlet.
::McCoy (surveying the field in front of him littered with dead horses)::
McCoy: My God Jim, there’s…there’s thousands of them…and they just beat them and beat them.
Welcome to the club. Back on page 1 or 2 of this thread I defended both the Mods and the SDMB. Not that anyone cares, really.
But I don’t do it because they might someday appreciate that someone is actually consistantly and streadfastly defending them and their policies, both on and off Board - I do it because they are in the right, and carrying out the right policy, IMO.
Wouldn’t it be great if no one simply responded to the person that this thread is about? Ever? Under any circumstances? Even a masturbating chimp gets tired of spanking his monkey, and a drunken crazed wino gets tired of telling you about the alien butt-burglars from Jupiter. Surely a person all alone insulting, intimidating, and demeaning others on this Board would go away if they were ignored (small “i”) forever. Right?