I hope I can get an honest answer for this. I’ve been curious about this forever, but always felt I was missing something obvious, so never asked anyone in person.
But, why are so many lesbians attracted to and of the “butch” variety?
I would think that a female attracted to another female would like the lipstick lesbian variety. The Portia DeRossi’s of the lesbian world. She’s an attractive female that would turn anyone’s head that is attracted to women. Which should be straight men and lesbians.
So, is there a reason for the “butch” attraction and look?.
Yes. Count me in as another who gets considerably confused about this. You don’t like men, but you choose partners who act like them and look like them, in some instances? What’s all that about?
I’ve never really understood this either. My guess would be that some people are more attracted to androgyny than masculinity/femininity per se, but they nudge more to one side or the other, i.e. are attracted to women with masculine characteristics or men with feminine characteristics. Some hetero guys like tomboy-ish women–I imagine it’s like that but more extreme.
I don’t why because you are a lesbian who like a woman who is masculine looking or who has masculine interests and behaviors, you would be interested in dating or having sex someone who has a whole different set of genitals, usually many other male physical characteristics like a rough skin, beard stubble and a different body scent. Not even talking about upbringing or place in society or lack of familiarity/socialization in lesbian/LGBT spaces etc.
That said, some women are both attracted to masculine women and men, because they are attracted first by masculinity and don’t care about the body. I don’t think they often call themselves lesbians though.
I have met a great number of straight men who like masculine or butch women, whether part of an attraction for many types of women, or as a preference, but before the internet I would have never thought there were so many of them (I’m a trans man attracted by men, this was pre/early physical transition). Some just liked my looks, others liked being able to be in a “buddy” relationship, but with plenty of sex.
Seems to me you could just as easily ask “Why are some people attracted to short/ tall/ redheaded/ funny/ musical/ morose people?” Is attraction all that easy to define? We’ve all seen couples that left us wondering what does he/she see in her/him? I think of the guys I’ve dated over my lifetime, and while the range is pretty wide, the three most serious, including the one I married, were a similar physical type with fairly similar personalities.
They’re the ones you notice as being lesbian. Alternately, some might dress and act like that to get men to not hit on/ogle them. Or they’re sick of societal expectations and are dressing differently because they like it.
There’s a lot of variety that some people might slap the label “butch” on, too. What about the leather-and-flannel wearing, spiky-haired lesbian with a curvy body and well-done makeup? The flowing-haired lesbian who doesn’t shave her body hair and doesn’t wear makeup? If these women were straight, you might call them “punk” and “hippie” instead.
I could agree with this, except for the question posed by Superhal:
“why are there so many butch lesbians?”
I can understand the outliers, sure. But as a hetero man, I am attracted to good looking women. If I were occasionally attracted to a tomboyish woman, OK… that can happen. But it seems to me that there are a LOT of butch women, indicating that many lesbians are attracted to a masculine female. So, does it boil down to wanting a man with female plumbing? I agree that we’ve all seen couples that leave us scratching our heads, but I’m talking about a perceived general trend, not the occasional tall woman - short man couple.
First off, a lot of butch lesbians are not doing “man things.” They are doing things that we associate with men, sure. But that doesn’t mean they are just imitating men any more than some fey emo boy in eyeliner and black nail polish is imitating a woman. Who says men get the monopoly on short hair, tattoos and swagger? How do these things make you “basically a man?” They are just fashions and interests!
I imagine part of it is a subculture thing. When subcultures form, different rules of attractiveness form. People start playing roles, and can become attractive in those roles even if that role means doing things that are unattractive to the general public. Biker girls look greasy and dirty to me, but to a biker dude they look awesome. I’m not into lots of odd piercings, but in some circles they are considered to increase attractiveness. A skinny guy in white makeup and eyeliner probably won’t make your average woman swoon, but he’ll draw in the goth girls.
Anyway, I bet the most desirable butch lesbians are still objectively attractive women. They are just wearing the markings of a subculture you are not into.
Another factor is that gender signs are a continuum. I prefer slightly femme guys- I like them slim, a bit baby-faced, a little emotional, etc. That’s just how things are. But I still want a penis! I don’t want a fake girl, I just want a guy who isn’t too manly. Likewise, I think the attraction to butch lesbians is the same thing.
Finally, not every lesbian dates Portia DeRossi because few people look like Portia DeRossi. Lots of Americans are unattractive in some way. A plain lesbian couple is not any more exceptional than a plain straight couple.
The OP seems to assume that butch lesbians choose to be butch because they find it is a good way to attract other lesbian women. I am not saying that that might not happen, but might it not also be the case that a high proportion of lesbians just are rather masculine women, in both appearance and personality. Butch may be partly a style choice, but it may not be that altogether. (I do not have a cite for this, but I believe there is research suggesting that sexual orientation in later life is related to amounts of testosterone that the fetus is exposed to in utero, as are aspects of the secondary sexual characteristics.)
If that is the case, the fact that many lesbian couples are butch, or a butch paired with a femme, may have more to do with what is available than with what their preferences would be, other things being equal.
I am not a lesbian but I do find myself attracted to butch women who still manage to maintain a hint of femininity over women who put so much effort into their looks. There’s one woman in particular I’m thinking of; she has short hair, wears no makeup, overweight and walks like a guy, but she has these long eyelashes and stunning ice blue eyes. She is butch but quite lovely to me.
Wow, there’s some wonderfully offensive responses here.
I kid, I kid. (At least for me, I kid. I know a few lesbians who would be greatly offended, but they’re lacking in the humor department.)
Anyway, let me take a crack at giving the OP an answer.
The poster who said you’re only noticing the “butch” lesbians is correct. Women who match the traditional feminine stereotype are assumed to be hetero, even if they’re with a female partner. That’s just human nature. I do it myself, not because I don’t know that “femme” lesbians exist, but because I, like most people, default to the default.
Also, the definition of “butch” really varies. If you saw me or my wife (separately or together), you might think we were butch. I don’t wear makeup. She does, but not much. We both wear ‘boy’ clothes, even though it’s not always clothing intended for men. We both wear sensible shoes. But, neither of us is trying to look butch or really consider ourselves to be butch. We just like what we like and that usually means something that we think looks good and is comfortable. I’m sure plenty of people have looked at us and thought we were trying to look masculine. That’s not the case, though, and I guarantee that when I look at my wife, I’m not seeing anything masculine at all.
Now, I know that there are some lesbians out there that really push the envelope of what is ‘feminine.’ I’ve seen a few couples that made me wonder “Gee, if you wanted a man, why didn’t you get one??” But again, it’s all a matter of perception. I might see someone as just one small step from being male, but that doesn’t mean they or their partner do. Or, maybe they do and they’re attracted to someone who pushes the gender bounderies to their absolute extreme. But that’s getting into gender studies and if anything gives me a headache…
This is my first thought. When you’re bucking convention by being a homosexual, it becomes easier to lose other conventions like clothing, makeup and hairstyles.
Look at the straight women you know (and yes, I realize I’m generalizing). They are raised from a very early age to spend a lot of time and effort changing their appearance, to fit the mold that society has made for them. How many straight women do you know who don’t wear makeup, don’t color and style their hair, don’t wear nail polish, don’t wear “flattering” clothes, or force their feet into painful deforming shoes? Most of them do it, and don’t even stop to ask themselves why. It’s what society expects them to be, and that’s what they are. Yes, a lot of it has to do with getting and keeping a man, and a lot of it has to do with competing with other women. And one of the worst things a woman can do is to “let herself go.”
But if you peel back all of that veneer . . . wash her face, get a manageable hair style, wear comfortable clothing and sensible shoes . . . what you have is a woman without pretense, without buying into society’s expectations.
Part of the coming-out process is the questioning . . . and if necessary, rejecting . . . of the roles that society has assigned to us. What is left is a woman who is just being herself, but from your point of view she’s no longer looking and acting like a woman . . . when in fact she is looking and acting exactly like a real woman, much more than her artificial sisters.
There’s a difference between not wearing makeup and putting on a hundred pounds, getting tattoos, spiking your hair, and getting a pit bull.
I live just outside the homosexual region of Seattle and it really is like the genders are reversed. You see a pair of men together and they’re dressed stylishly, very nice to everyone, have a little yappy dog, etc. Whereas the women look like they’re trying to seem like you could find them betting on cock fights on the weekends and would be quite happy to tear your head off if you as much asked how’s the weather.
I’ll admit that people who live in the “gay” section of town are a self-selected bunch and so aren’t necessarily representative. But, I do suspect that we’re looking at a significant percentage of the overall population.
(For the record, I have a slender lesbian friend who plucks her eyebrows, likes pink, etc. Though, she also races motorcycles and likes guns, but I attribute that to being Australian.)
What do say here? I’m a straight woman who doesn’t wear much makeup, loves flannel shirts (well, when it’s cold outside); never wears satin/lace/frills; prefers jeans and slacks to skirts; will not wear heels (and now cannot–thanks chronic foot problems-but I have never liked them) ; doesn’t own a push-up bra and doesn’t like large breasts; thinks Vicky’s Secret is a horrid place (not into lingerie, thankyouverymuch); hates the color pink etc.
I don’t have short hair, I don’t find tattoos or weight lifting bodies (male or female) attractive, and I don’t have an especially deep voice. And yet, to look at me, there is no question I’m female and feminine. Since one can’t judge orientation by appearance, I guess it would be not be a good idea to make generalizations about people.
Ok, I took a long time to say don’t judge by appearances. Sexual attraction is only partially based on appearance.
Homosexual guys appear to like clean, attractive, masculine, well-groomed, homosexual guys (and, inexplicably, Liza Minnelli, Bette Midler and Barbara Streisand.) I have rarely ever seen homosexual men in relationships with transvestites, nor when they pick women to have families with do they pick butch women.
So again, if homosexual men don’t desire transvestites or women who act like men, why would lesbians find butches attractive in such numbers that being a butch is so common?
(At least for me, I kid. I know a few lesbians who would be greatly offended, but they’re lacking in the humor department.)
But, neither of us is trying to look butch or really consider ourselves to be butch. We just like what we like and that usually means something that we think looks good and is comfortable. I’m sure plenty of people have looked at us and thought we were trying to look masculine. That’s not the case, though, and I guarantee that when I look at my wife, I’m not seeing anything masculine at all.