A Question of Identity (poll)

One of my other major “identity factors” is paranoid schizophrenic. I was so labeled/diagnosed by a psychiatrist acting in his offiicial capacity and retaining me on a locked ward. Of course a big part of what got me locked up initially was trying to communicate about the hetersexual sissy stuff, so it’s all interlinked. But the apartness, and alienation and lack of social skills, and perhaps most importantly the lack of being able to rely on other folks for everyday reality-testing because my everyday mindset had diverged enough to rule that out… I do know what it’s like to not be a part of “people”. I’m always at the edge, sometimes glad to be a bit of an outsider, sometimes painfully lonely and wishing I could have the kind of sense of belonging I see other folks have with each other.

I don’t have the no-empathy thing Yag Rannavich writes of, I don’t think, although in some of my theistic transcendent moments I’ve queried with some worry about the fate of the species and acquired the reassuring thought that, well, if homo sap doesn’t get it together as a peaceful voluntary cooperation oriented species, no biggie, some other social yet individually intelligent species will, which is the important thing after all. And it does have a retrospectively shockingly unempathic attitude towards the rest of my species, so maybe we’re not so far apart there either?

Beaucarnea, if you are ever in Ontario, you should come up and visit some people I know.

Every year they put themselves, their fortunes, and their sacred honour on the line to defend the earth. They have documented and reported toxic spills that led to fifty-million-dollar cleanups. They shut down an operation that was selling toxic paper-mill waste as road binder. They monitor logging operations in their area to make sure that everything goes according to law, that no-one’s silting the streams and wrecking the spawning grounds, or clearcutting outside the guidelines.

And they taught me and a lot of other people that it is in fact possible to build a house in our climate that needs no heating in the winter or cooling in the summer. This kind of design was my old dream that I had gone to architecture school for and discovered that they didn’t know what I was talking about. I had almost given up on it in despair, and they showed me that it was doable, they were doing it, and I could too.

They are quite inspirational.

It may be true that society’s thoughts take far longer than those of the individual (for an interesting take on this, see the book Metaman by Gregory Stock), but I think the intensity of thought and action of individuals makes a difference as well. These people have had thousands of visitors and helpers at their house, and this is catalysing all sorts of interesting things.

Yag Rannavach is the name of a fallen god from my childhood imagination. Good old Yag drew power from imprisoning the souls of humans, but was defeated by an alliance of humans and reapers. Well, not so much defeated as left powerless, when the humans and reapers freed the imprisoned souls. Of course, this victory was short lived, since the reapers consumed souls for power, and humans were the only source of souls. Oh, and the reapers consumed all of the freed souls. I think you can figure out what happened to the humans from this point on…

This is the reason I will never visit a psychologist/psychiatrist. While I’m sure there are ones who do good, the downside from running into a bad one is far too great to take chances.

I can usually tell when an idea of mine is too far away from the mainstream and nix sharing it before it’s too late. And then make up something else that’s a little less divergent.

I never had that sense of belonging, so I don’t know what I’m missing. Which is probably for the best, since, if I had and it was something I enjoyed, it would be harder to dismiss the desire.

No…it doesn’t sound like you do.
Why is peaceful cooperation a goal? And why is it important for some species, somewhere, to achieve it?

It’s astonishingly efficient. It’s like an engine with very low friction compared to one with quite a bit of it: the one with excess friction binds and stutters and gets very hot and can’t attain beyond very low RPM, and therefore can’t do much. Because of that efficiency there’s a great evolutionary payoff .

Yes, I have ADD. More accurately (since I think that, in general, the disease is overdiagnosed): I had severe behavioral problems and difficulty holding my attention on a lot of things as a child, consistent with what we usually call ADD.

a) Were you aware of “it” first as one feature of who-you-are among many such features, and then something happened and you went “oh” and all of a sudden it became definitive? <if so please share your story if you’re so inclined>

There was no “aha” moment. From what my parents tell me, the signs began to emerge long before I could pretend to have conscious memory, and by the time I was old enough to understand that I was different and in what way, I had already been experiencing some of the problems. As I grew up I gradually sharpened my understanding of the situation.

b) Did “it” become “who you are” in a big way pretty much in your own head, on your own, or did you find yourself fitting into a community of people who identified as such and you had a moment of “aha, this is who I am, this is where I belong”?

Yes, very much so. It was present in everything I did, because it affects how I think and thus how I act. It was especially present in my interactions with others. I never belonged to a group or with anyone until after I had eliminated most of the undesirable behaviors.

c) Have you ever been specifically harassed, attacked, discriminated against, subjected to violence, or otherwise mistreated SPECIFICALLY as a representative member of “it”? If so: did that event (or ongoing phenomenon) play a role in you coming to think of yourself as “it”? Auxiliary question: have you ever bee specifically harassed, etc, SPECIFICALLY as a representative of some OTHER outgroup or variant that you do NOT feel specifically describes you? Main and aux question: <please describe if you’re so inclined>

Oh, I was brutally teased as a child. My peers got to thinking of me as a “spaz,” or “that weird kid.” They would tease me because when they got a rise out of me, it was explosive. I would end up throwing books, or hitting someone, or other not good things. I set my elementary school’s record for most time in the principal’s office. It defined the relationship I had with my peers in elementary school, and therefore in junior high and high school as well. Although I had stopped losing control physically by grade school’s end, I remained very much an outcast – by my own efforts. The early years so soured the experience of relating to people my own age that I wanted nothing to do with the classmates who took such delight in my problems. As to the auxiliary question: no.

d) Over time, did you modify, elaborate on, or add other “it” factors to your sense of who you most fundamentally are? If so, were these subdivisions or subtypes, or more akin to not-specifically-related factors that ALSO tended to define you?

Over time, and with the help of my psychiatrist, I learned to appreciate aspects to my problem other than the short temper. Primary among these is how I think. The analogy I was given is that “normal” people think like a farmer, plowing a field step by step, while I think like a hunter, having to be aware of many different things simultaneously. (I feel the need to emphasize that I don’t think this makes me smarter than anyone else. I just interpret things differently. It’s better in some ways, and worse in others. In particular, it means I’m not as naturally good as math as an aspiring career physicist should be, which has caused me headaches aplenty.) Another aspect is a more benign behavioral difference: when I’m not on my medication (which I still take regularly), I tend to become … well, silly. To a lesser extent this is reflected in my sense of humor and creativity whether I’m medicated or not.

e) All in all, has identification of yourself with a unitary “it”, a unitary “I am different from ordinary/normal people in THIS way” tag, proven to be more confining than liberating, more liberating than confining, or <other, feel free to elaborate>?

It has been both liberating and confining, both a blessing and a curse. I’ll knock out a quick list of Pros and Cons:

Pro: It freed me from the normal social worries of adolescents, allowing me to focus on my academics.
Con: It required me to be constantly aware of what I was doing, lest I subject myself to further teasing.
Pro: It forced me to learn how to deal with frustration and failure.
Con: I ended up shutting myself out from people for so long that I am still playing catch up in some areas. Case in point: I don’t pick up on the more subtle facial cues or tone of voice signals in conversations. With any luck that will come with time.

One last thing I’d like to add: This difference is still with me. I still think of myself as being fundamentally different from other people. Oh sure, there are some people that I share some personality traits with, but no one I have met has been different in the same way I am. And I wouldn’t have it any other way. It allows me to step back from what’s going on around me and look at it from a fresh perspective. What happened as I grew up is that I was gradually able to stop thinking of my difference as “this problem I have where I lose control” and start thinking of it as “boy, I’m weird. Isn’t that funny?”

:slight_smile:

I will look for that book, Sunspace, thanks for the recommendation. I need something of a boost to get me pointed in the right direction- it has only recently occurred to me that I would have a happier and more fulfilling life if my obsession with conservation was actually a profession. It really is time for me to stop my small scale definsives and do something that actually makes a difference. Thank you for finding me here.

Dad? Is that you?

You guys took the time to provide me with comforting reassurances that the rest of the world will get a grasp on the destruction of our resources. It is my turn. Through both observation and recent news in the popular press I have discovered that those people who are perceived as different or a little odd may be in possession of a wealth of knowledge and insight. I realize that several of the posters here have asserted that by adulthood they had learned how to assimilate and blend in spite of some internal conflicts, so spotting an adult with divergent social ideas can be a bit of a challenge. But when I do come across someone with that certain hesitant behavior, I feel as though I may be in the presence of greatness. I have been purposefully engaging shyer types for the last few years, and so far I have found a gifted nutritionist (the guy I ran into at the library), an amateur author who writes in the exact style of Ray Bradbury (the reserved Jehovah’s Witness I work with), and a fellow with boundless enthusiasm about any new idea (a former co-worker who suffers from manic depression with extreme cycles).

And it isn’t just me who has discovered this wonderful indicator of creativity or genius- popular press has outed Bram Cohen (the creator of Bit Torrents) as someone with Asperger’s, Temple Grandin has some version of autism and is a personal idol for her work in making radical and humane changes to the meat packing industry, and Dawn Prince- Hughes claims Asperger’s and is a gifted anthropologist who is making sense of animal/human social behavior. (link has a great recorded interview with her).

So what I am saying is this: different is the new genius. Roll with it.

But why does that matter?

I guess the question I’m trying to ask is “why is it some sort of ultimate goal?” What does it matter whether or not the human race ‘evolves’, or dies out?

Personally I’d hear something like this and think that the other person is trying to get me to rationalize away something, or feel better about myself. This would cause me to lose all respect I had for the intelligence of the other person, and no further ‘progress’ would be made. (after all, who made them an expert on what hunters or farmers focus on?)

That may have come off a bit harsh, I don’t mean to dispute what you feel about yourself, Spatial Rift 47; just explaining, unasked, how I would interpret a similar situation.

Not thinking like everyone else definitely has its up side - while I often don’t get people’s motivations for what they do, when confronted with a challenge, I don’t stop until I have a solution figured out, and that often involves thinking around corners. I don’t think smarter or better; I just think differently.

The first. I was around 10 when it occurred to me, standing on the playground one day, that I was different and that I was always going to be on the outside looking in. I don’t know what precipitated this little revelation, but man, how prophetic it was.

But I don’t have a name for “it”. If someone were to ask me to explain why I feel not quite “right”, I don’t think I’d be able to do it well. I think there’s also a part of me that doesn’t want to own up to my weirdness because 1) everyone thinks their weird, so why should I think I’m special? and 2) I’m ashamed of my weirdness, I wish I was normal, and I’m not ready to claim “it” as my identity.

I don’t think of myself as belonging to a community of people like me. I’ve never really belonged anywhere. I’ve come to the sad conclusion that it’s easier on the ego to just stay to myself. That way, I don’t have to keep embarrassing myself by pretending to be “normal”, nor do I have to manufacture an aberrant identity just so I can seek membership into pre-existing group or subculture .