A question to C K Dexter Haven on the art of the insult in GD

The BBQ Pit
1

C K Dexter Haven,

I placed this here in GD and not The Pit because it is a serious question that I’d like to handle seriously, not fliply. And it seems there is a debate as to what does and does not constitute a violation of the GD rules.

In this thread you were kind enough to weigh in on an accusation that I made against tomndebb concerning an insult. I’ll post what you offered and then ask my question.

[QUOTE=C K Dexter Haven]
Administrator interjects:
Magellan01: I have looked into this situation – fairly quickly, I admit, since there are three pages of posts – and I do not see that tomndeb has violated either forum rules or board rules. There is a careful distinction between “You appear to have said…” and “You are…” He is not attacking you as a person, he is attacking what you said.
[/QUOTE]

Thank you for your input here. But I don’t think this is how GD has been moderated in the past. I would also point out that your explanation does NOT seem to address what was said. I bring your attention to the words “you” and “who”.

[QUOTE=tomndebb]
I am hardly going to warn you or threaten you with banning for being an incompetent debater who distorts what has been posted on a thread or throws odd red herrings into the discussion.
[/QUOTE]
(bolding mine)

Also, I don’t see where something along the lines of “appears to have said” (emphasis mine) is present or relevant.

That said, based on the explanation you provided, which of these would be allowed? Which worthy of a warning or admonishment? And why? Please note that ALL of them adhere to the distinction you made above: they all focus the comment on what has been said, not who said it.

  1. What you said is stupid.
  2. Everything you have said is stupid.
  3. Everything you say is stupid.
  4. The stuff coming out of your mouth is completely asinine.
  5. The stuff you say is completely asinine.
  6. I am hardly going to report you for being an incompetent moderator who lies and distorts what has been said. I have better things to do.
  7. I’m not going to report you for the lies, distortions and stupidity that you type. It would do no good.
  8. I won’t comment on the dumbfuck posts you continue to spawn.
  9. Why do you keep spewing these lies and stupidity? Your posts in this thread imply a severe lack of education and gross stupidity.
  10. That is the dumbest, most dishonest thing I have ever read on these boards.
  11. I’m hardly going to respond to a poster that types such stupid shit.
  12. You have just typed the dumbest thing I have ever seen.
  13. That’s the kind of post I’d expect from a poster that consistently posts stupid shit.

Again, they all point to what has been said. So, are these all allowed in GD? Please be specific, because your explanation will doubt be used to artfully craft insults in the future. Perhaps even by a Moderator.

2

Moderator’s Note: The BBQ Pit is the place for all “complaints and other discussion regarding administration of the SDMB” (which is what this thread clearly is).

3

Dear moderators: if you don’t mind, could you please define just how much of a hostile, hectoring jerk I can can get away with being in GD without getting myself banned? Thanks in advance.

4

Whaaaaa! Tom’s a meanie and wears jackboots!

5

[Quote=RedFury]
Tom’s a meanie and wears jackboots!
[/Quote]

And nothing else. So I’m told. I wouldn’t know one way or another.

6

[QUOTE=RedFury]
Whaaaaa! Tom’s a meanie and wears jackboots!
[/QUOTE]

What’s REALLY kinky is that they’re TVeblen’s old jackboots.

7

[QUOTE=El_Kabong]
And nothing else. So I’m told. I wouldn’t know one way or another.
[/QUOTE]

The less said about the last meeting at the Mod’s Secret Enclave of Doom, the better.

Well, I will say that we didn’t let him play Musical Chairs with the rest of us.

8

I saw this thread before:

Doper: discusses “A”

OP: mentions “A” was caused by “B” (with an aside that mentions “Y”)

Doper: “B” was not a correct assumption, “Y” was already discussed and dismissed before.

OP: You are insulting for bringing “Y” into the discussion!

4 pages of Argumentum ad Nauseam follows to demonstrate what an insult that was. It does not matter what “Y” was, the faith of the nation hangs in denouncing the assumed insult!

“A” is ignored, Mission Accomplished! :slight_smile:

9

Ah, now that you’ve finally arrived in the pit in connection with the thread about the asswhuping of the Republicans (“SDMB Conservatives: Go Reclaim Your Party”), I can tell you what I think of your personal attacks in GD.

You are a whining, pathetic little puss. So you’re whimpering that the Republicans took it up the keister? Boo fucking hoo. Why don’t you take a break and quit flailing all over the boards? All you are doing with your extended temper tantrum is solidifying the impression that you are a major league asshole, and a moronic one at that.

10

And I think that this is an excellent illustration of the kind of thing that would violate the rules of Great Debates.

But not the Pit.

I hope you see the difference, magellan01?

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[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian]
Ah, now that you’ve finally arrived in the pit in connection with the thread about the asswhuping of the Republicans (“SDMB Conservatives: Go Reclaim Your Party”), I can tell you what I think of your personal attacks in GD.

You are a whining, pathetic little puss. So you’re whimpering that the Republicans took it up the keister? Boo fucking hoo. Why don’t you take a break and quit flailing all over the boards? All you are doing with your extended temper tantrum is solidifying the impression that you are a major league asshole, and a moronic one at that.
[/QUOTE]

Nice. Has a beat and I can dance to it. 8/10. Woulda been a 9/10, but you neglected to call him a fuckwit.

12

[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian]
Ah, now that you’ve finally arrived in the pit in connection with the thread about the asswhuping of the Republicans (“SDMB Conservatives: Go Reclaim Your Party”), I can tell you what I think of your personal attacks in GD.
[/QUOTE]

Cite, please. Go into that thread and show me these horrid personal insults. And while you’re at it, show me the warnings or admonishments I, no-doubetdly, received for such insults.

Either that, or I’ll have to conclude you’re simply lying. You’ll forgive me that I’m not shocked.

[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian]
You are a whining, pathetic little puss. So you’re whimpering that the Republicans took it up the keister?
[/QUOTE]

Is this what you consider “whimpering that the Republicans took it up the keister”?

[QUOTE=magellan01]
I think this is a good thing for the country. To alter what Airman Doors said, the republicans need a break from power. This slap will hopefully cause them to wake up and get back to conservatism.

The democrats will not be able to simply complain and point out fault, and will have to offer concrete solutions. The move to the middle will hopefully cause the majority to slap down Conyers and other extremists.

I really think that, as unpalatable as some of this might be in the coming year to conservatives like myself, it is a good thing for both parties and the country.

Congratulations to all who were hoping for or worked towrd this.
[/QUOTE]

That is my intial post in its entirety. I had also intended it to be mt last post in that thread. Alas, that was not to be. “Whimpering”. I don’t see it. Someone trying to be gracious in loss and congratulate his opponent? A little more so.

Schmuck.

Oops. Make that “Schmuck and liar.”

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[QUOTE=magellan01]

  1. What you said is stupid.
  2. Everything you have said is stupid.
  3. Everything you say is stupid.
  4. The stuff coming out of your mouth is completely asinine.
  5. The stuff you say is completely asinine.
  6. I am hardly going to report you for being an incompetent moderator who lies and distorts what has been said. I have better things to do.
  7. I’m not going to report you for the lies, distortions and stupidity that you type. It would do no good.
  8. I won’t comment on the dumbfuck posts you continue to spawn.
  9. Why do you keep spewing these lies and stupidity? Your posts in this thread imply a severe lack of education and gross stupidity.
  10. That is the dumbest, most dishonest thing I have ever read on these boards.
  11. I’m hardly going to respond to a poster that types such stupid shit.
  12. You have just typed the dumbest thing I have ever seen.
  13. That’s the kind of post I’d expect from a poster that consistently posts stupid shit.
    [/QUOTE]
    Pretty impressive collection, magellan01. Did you pick those all up on your own over the years, or were some of them borrowed from Clothahump’s dance card?

I dood it! :smiley:

14

If your desire is to insult, why not just stick with the Pit? I can see your challenging someone in GD if what they have stated contradicts the truth, but that doesn’t have to be done with invective.

I’m curious about the name-calling that you used to address Tom in GD. That seemed really beneath you. It made you seem malicious even though the names themselves were kind of silly.

You are better than this.

15

Well obviously, some of these will depend on context, but righty-o:

  1. What you said is stupid. – Critique. Allowed (assuming you follow it with an explication of course)
  2. Everything you have said is stupid. – Blatant dismissal of anything you don’t agree with. Probably allowed, but essentially it just shows that you’ve no desire to actually debate anything
  3. Everything you say is stupid. – Insult. Not allowed
  4. The stuff coming out of your mouth is completely asinine. Insult
  5. The stuff you say is completely asinine. Depends on context. Could be the same as #1 or #3
  6. I am hardly going to report you for being an incompetent moderator who lies and distorts what has been said. I have better things to do. – Pointless. Amuses other dopers at your expense, so allowed to sit
  7. I’m not going to report you for the lies, distortions and stupidity that you type. It would do no good. – Insult.
  8. I won’t comment on the dumbfuck posts you continue to spawn. – Insult
  9. Why do you keep spewing these lies and stupidity? Your posts in this thread imply a severe lack of education and gross stupidity. – Insult that also works like #2, so a double whammy
  10. That is the dumbest, most dishonest thing I have ever read on these boards. – Critique. Allowed (assuming explication)
  11. I’m hardly going to respond to a poster that types such stupid shit. – Same as #2
  12. You have just typed the dumbest thing I have ever seen. – Meh. Same as #6
  13. That’s the kind of post I’d expect from a poster that consistently posts stupid shit. – Insult. Compounded by the same issues as #2

Live long and prosper.

16

I am not a GD moderator, nor do I pretend to be, nor do I want to be. Magellan01 pulled me in because he was voicing a complaint to the admins about tomndebb, who is a GD moderator. I knew that TubaDiva is gone this weekend, I wasn’t sure of other Admin availability, so I thought I ought to respond quickly rather than let things fester.

I will call this thread to the attention of the GD moderators, who can comment on the rules of Great Debates as they enforce them. I made my call based on my understanding of the general rules for all forums: FAQ: Rules for Posting at the Straight Dope Message Boards, Post #10. Plus my experiences with formal debate rules, which are doubtless a trifle dated.

17

[QUOTE=C K Dexter Haven]
I am not a GD moderator, nor do I pretend to be, nor do I want to be. Magellan01 pulled me in because he was voicing a complaint to the admins about tomndebb, who is a GD moderator. I knew that TubaDiva is gone this weekend, I wasn’t sure of other Admin availability, so I thought I ought to respond quickly rather than let things fester.

I will call this thread to the attention of the GD moderators, who can comment on the rules of Great Debates as they enforce them. I made my call based on my understanding of the general rules for all forums: FAQ: Rules for Posting at the Straight Dope Message Boards, Post #10. Plus my experiences with formal debate rules, which are doubtless a trifle dated.
[/QUOTE]

I didn’t mean to drag you, specifically, into this. So I extend my apologies for putting you on the spot. I didn’t know Mods were exclusive to the different fora. Based on your post in the thread that sparked this one, I think you can see how I assumed you could answer. But I guess it makes sense, as I am seeking an official ruling of sorts, to have someone more familiar with the specifics of GD answer. Thanks for providing the guidance you did. I’ll look forward to an official explanation from TubeDiva or another appropriate administrator/mod in the next couple of days or so.

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[QUOTE=MEBuckner]
Moderator’s Note: The BBQ Pit is the place for all “complaints and other discussion regarding administration of the SDMB” (which is what this thread clearly is).
[/QUOTE]

I’d ask you to reconsider this. I do desire this to be a serious discussion, along the lines of what Sage Rat has offered. Keeping it here will decrease the likelihood that that will be the thrust of the thread. You can see that already. If you look at the OP you will see that this is NOT intended to be a rant, it is a serious question which I would like to debate: what does and does not constitute an insult in GD. I would appreciate it if you could move it back to GD. Thank you.

19

Rigidity and ossification are supposed to be qualities that improve the SDMB experience? Because that’s where hard-and-fast policies such as you are insisting be implemented tend to lead.

In the absence of such policies, moderators have a responsibility and the authority to exercise judgement. That strikes me as a good thing. If the responsibility is shirked, and the authority abused, a member is free to have the matter looked into by the admins.

Rank-and-file members also bear some responsibility, to be respectful of the space, and of fellow members.

Really, it’s not that difficult to intuit this knowledge about the board and its culture. GD just isn’t the place to have the conversation about it.

20

There are a lot of very stupid people saying very stupid things in GQ these days. Add to that a handful of poseurs and pretenders. I think we should lift the ‘no insults’ rule for a while and clean the fuckin’ place up.