A rational discussion about the latest crisis in the middle east?

I’m not sure where this came from, or why you think its a valid comparison, but what the hell…I’ll play along.

Lets assume that a radical anti-American militia group formed in Mexico. This group decided that they wanted to gain back all the territory in the South West that was at one time Mexican. To do this they started to launch sporatic raids into the US, occationally launching terror type operations against the populace, occationally raids on our military. This goes on more or less periodically for a few decades. Then they ‘started lobbing shells into the US’.

Oh yeah…and the Mexican government comes out with a statement to the effect that this militant group, while not directly under their control, is part of their ‘defense’ against further US aggression or invasion. And that their aims are valid, though of course not shared by the Mexican government wink wink, nudge nudge. Oh, and this terror group has wide spread support from the Mexican people.

Ok…so, what would we do? I suppose initially we would try the diplomatic route. We’d tell the Mexican government that they need to control militant groups within their borders, etc. If the Mexican government threw up its hands and said ‘we are helpless to do anything about them, we are just poor and weak’, blah blah blah, we’d probably offer to take care of the problem for them…or perhaps take it to the United Nations and seek international aid to help the poor Mexican’s get rid of their popularly supported militant group. Failing that, we’d probably start imposing economic sanctions and increase the pressure on Mexico to do something about these attacks. If none of this stuff worked ( :dubious: ), then we would most likely start taking matters into our own hands militarily. Perhaps we’d start with cross border Special Forces type raids, maybe air strikes. Its hard to say and would depend on the level of attacks we were sustaining…especially the citizens in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California (especially California).

You are dreaming if you think that only GW would pursue a military option, that a more moderate (or left wing) President would do nothing or hem and haw…not if it was our citizens under threat. Because, you see, any president who would do nothing (or any one in the Congress/Senate, or any local Governor, etc) who did nothing, or urged restraint in the face of such attacks would not stay President, Congressman, Senator, Governor, etc, for very long. There would be a hue and cry (especially in those states effected) to DO something. Especially as this thing dragged on for decades.

Of course, the analogy totally doesn’t work because frankly the US is THE worlds hyperpower…and Israel, while powerful in its own right, is definitely nothing more than a regional power. The US has clout and means that the Israeli’s can only dream of. Just the threat of economic sanctions from the US would be enough to bring either Mexico or Canada in line for something like this. An option not exactly open to Israel. In addition, the US is one of the UNSC members…giving us a huge amount of power from that perspective. Finally, though the IDF is a powerful regional force, the US military is light years ahead capability wise.

That answer your hijack well enough? :stuck_out_tongue:

-XT

That’s what we would do, near as I can tell. At least, that’s what we did the last time.

On September 11, 2001 the US suffered a devastating attack by Al Qaeda operatives. We have since been informed that these attacks were in response to US foreign policy, and that we could expect more attacks if their demands were not met.

We did not give in. Our foreign policy since then has been utterly dedicated to the destruction of Al Qaeda.

Why is it that violence and the threat of violence strengthens the resolve and unites Americans, but every other nation is supposed to utterly submit to the same stimuli?

Hezbollah, or perhaps a successor organization, will gain support because the Lebanese want to get some revenge and prevent the Israelis from ever attacking them again. The same reason, really, that we invaded Afghanistan. The same reason Israel is attacking Lebanon.

Nope, I think these actions will increase the membership.; They claim Israel is agressive and seeks to destroy its neighbors. This will not disprove it. Terrorists are not born they are created. Israel is frustrated in their dealings ,but I believe this is a mistake and will accomplish nothing positive.

That’s perfectly logical in legal terms but ignores the fact that the government, at this stage in its young life, lacks the political or military power to control Hezbollah; and swearing in all Hezbollah fighters as soldiers of the Lebanese army would not change that. If they tried to court-martial any of its members they might find it impossible even to arrest them.

And look how that worked out!

Yes, I know it didn’t work out especially well, but we certainly did it. And we’d probably do it again. So?

Well, there haven’t been any attacks on the U.S. from Mexico lately, so I guess the problem went away. What’s Hezbollah’s excuse?

My apologies for stepping in without reading the entire thread first. I would not normally do this but having gone through the above mentioned threads carefully, and reading the quoted reply, I feel that either some people are allergic to facts or at the very least facts must give the a migraine.
Please, Caparazon, if a link is provided, I suggest you at least skim it. Facts are not that hard to find!!!

To me this seems like part of the problem - “Its not that i’m for terrorism, Its just that I don’t want to appear pro-Israel”.

As was mentioned before, I also have a hard time understanding this kind of mindset. Read the facts, compile, run. If you still find appearing as NOT-pro-Israel more important than doing something the situation, the you should be commited.

Hardly; beyond our attack on Afghanistan, we’ve barely tried. We’ve been more focused on Iraq, and terrorizing random foreigners. Basically, we’ve been serving as a recruiting agent for Al Queda and other terrorists. We didn’t “give in”; for most intents and purposes, we threw in with them; we’ve done pretty much what they wanted.

It didn’t; it either turned American into a nation of quivering cowards, or revealed them as such. It certainly didn’t unite us.

BrainGlutton:

Why? From what I understand, the Lebanese army has more than twenty times as many soldiers as Hezbollah has militants.

Perhaps a bigger issue is the possibility that any Lebanese leader and/or general who did act to curb Hezbolla would die by the hand of a Syrian, or one of their henchmen.

I don’t think the differential is that great, and many of the soldiers are Shi’ites and almost certainly Hezbollah sympathizers, and Lebanon cannot afford yet anothe civil war.

BrainGlutton:

Fair point…but on the other hand, having a loose-cannon militia around is costing them dearly as well.