A Scary Thought about Death and Dying

This is my second morbid thread started in the last few days. It’s not intentional.

Anyway, I never really had any fear of death until this idea occurred to me last night. I figured, however I die, there may be some temporary pain and then nothing…I’ll be done and goodbye. After this thought I had, I think I actually fear this happening to me or someone I care about.

Let’s assume that the process of “dying” takes a discrete amount of time. In a plane crash or bombing, this may be 5 seconds. After a heart attack, it may be 20 minutes. Whatever, we just know that it’s some specific amount of time.

As you’re dying, all of your body’s systems are failing. Your heart shuts down cutting off oxygen to the brain, and eventually killing off all brain functions. That’s when you’re dead and, unless you believe in some sort of afterlife, your existence is finished.

It’s the process of the brain functions shutting down that scares me. The brain is, essentially, a computer. It takes inputs (from our senses), perceives them (interpreting the sensory inputs) and then makes decisions. But when someone is dying, this computer is basically malfunctioning.

As the brain is malfunctioning, what happens to our ability to perceive time? And more importantly, what could happen to this ability? When we’re alive and conscious, we can basically tell when 1 hour has passed. We may perceive this hour as a long 60 minutes at a boring opera or in a flight delay. Or we may perceive it as a short 60 minutes if we’re doing something fun. We can pretty much tell when an approximate hour has passed.

But when the brain is not working correctly, I suspect that this can change. 5 seconds may feel like 10 seconds or 10 minutes or even (gasp!) 10 years. People may say that a loved one died peacefully and quickly in their sleep. But they can never know if it felt peaceful and quick to the person that died. We can’t assume that the person perceived time correctly, whether the real world time that elapsed was 5 seconds or 15 minutes. Maybe the 15 minutes felt like 15 centuries. And if there was pain, it would have felt like 15 centuries of pain.

People that undergo a surgery with general anesthesia sometimes feel like they were only asleep for seconds, when in reality it was much longer. This tells me that our perception of time can change significantly when unconscious.

Additionally, evolution doesn’t protect us from anything when dying. While we’re living, it protects us from external threats such as diseases. For the most part, it allows us to live relatively pain-free and happy lives so that we can continue to propagate our species. Natural selection already killed off the ancestors that didn’t evolve along with us. But when we’re dying, there are no advantages. At that point, you’re useless to the species and we probably didn’t evolve to die pain-free or to die with any comfort at all.

Any thoughts?

Only immediate thought I have is from Cecil’s column on how long the head remains conscious after a beheading.

Link

The last part, that seems to describe a decapitated head becoming conscious of what just happened is a might chilling.

Doesn’t really answer the question of perception of time, though. Only thing I can add to that is that for me, anesthesea causes time to pass more quickly than even sleeping. And that wasn’t even general - that was mild sedation.

There’s a limit to how fast the brain can process information. You can’t speed it up enough to cram a hundred years worth of computation into ten seconds. So while sometimes it may feel like a short interval has been stretched out so it’s longer, there’s an upper bound.

I don’t think anyone’s ever really been able to nail down the true nature of consciousness, but I think it’s a mistake to equate it to the health state of the brain. Consciousness is merely perception and awareness. As such, that’s all that really matters. Each of us lives in a universe unto ourselves, that universe ceases to exist when we lose consciousness. Therefore, yes, we may experience some time stretching relative to what we’ve grown used to receiving from our senses, but that wouldn’t matter as we lose touch with the reality our senses report on. I like to think that it’s not so much “pain” that we’d experience as our brain breaks down, but an emotional/intellectual impression of what we think of as we realize we’re expiring. And since the senses are no longer players in the game, fantasy prevails. Welcome to the eternity that is Heaven or Hell!

Have you ever seen Richard Linklater’s Waking Life? Julie Delpy and Ethan Hawke discuss just this, but present it as something wondrous rather than terrifying. (Sorry for the horrid punctuation– I could only find a transcript)

I suspect that if the brain were prone to malfunction in such a manner, there’d be a fair amount of anecdotal evidence for it. People who have suffered severe concussions or survived being struck by lightning would be waking up screaming with post-traumatic stress, and later telling us that the experience felt like it was stretched out over minutes or days or whatever.

Consider, also: time seems to pass most slowly when we’re bored. If you’re interested in your death, it’ll go faster.

“It’s longer than you think”.

I thought this notion had been debunked – that dreams take place at some speed much higher than normal (e.g., having hours worth of dreams from 10:12 to 10:13). The last research I read up on indicated that dream experiences take place pretty much in real time. But that was back in 1995 or so…

Sorta of related.

In 2001 A Space Odyssey, when HAL the computer is being shut down, something much like that appears to be going on. Minus the stretching of time thing.

That scene has me in tears every time I see it.

I thought time slowed throughout that wreck of a movie. The first hour feels like a month.

There was a poster on this board some time ago who argued that, since consciousness cannot experience its own end, the last moment of consciousness before death lasted a subjective eternity.

I tried searching for the thread, but I didn’t find anything on the first attempt and it said “This forum requires that you wait 3-4 weeks between searches. Please try again sometime in mid February.”

What about time in the womb when the brain is not developed, what happens to the sense of time there, perhaps it has been like 1000 years or so, so we may have all been through that already.

I actually have a science fiction book half-written where something like that is a major plot point. It would be pretty cool if you found that post/thread/discussion.

But how does that account for general anesthesia, where you get an injection and seconds later your consciousness shuts off like a light bulb and you wake up a subjective instant later in the surgical recovery room? Or heck, even for falling asleep before you start dreaming.

I’m of the opinion that we probably boot up a fresh consciousness every time we start dreaming or wake up, myself.

Um, this is an exaggeration, right? I’d suspect so, but given the way the SDMB servers sometimes operate, I find it just baaaaaaaaaarely within the realm of being plausible.

Only objectively.

Are you, perchance, referencing an SF short story about a transporter that required passengers to be unconcious, and a little boy who held his breath for the anesthesia mask and took the trip anyway, only to experience a subjective eternity?

Or just being cryptic?

One elaborative take on it is the Tibetan Book of the Dead, well worth the read for a different perspective.

I would love to read something on this, though I’m not entirely sure how one would gauge time in a dream, where you can change location from second to second. I have definitely experienced hours’ worth of dreams while passed out (thanks a lot, highly dangerous childhood choking game!)

Just reading that gives me the willies.

No, that’s what Ludovic is referring to, although that’s kind of a spoiler to the Stephen King story being referenced.

I don’t recall how they measure it, but I do recall the article specifically making the point that dreams happen in roughly real time, despite the feeling that hours of dreaming has occurred in a short time. I believe they were relying on tracking rapid eye movements during dreams, but I can’t remember for sure. I’ll have to check.

Also, that childhood “passing out by pressing on your chest” game was really weird.

No matter how long that time will feel like it lasted a few minutes later it won’t matter. You won’t exist to remember or feel the pain. Maybe that’s worse though. :frowning: