I went other. In an odd way we would rally together. Trump as POTUS would get the credit by some and “in spite of” from others. But it would be a shorter-lived rallying point than 9/11 was and within a couple months we’ll be back to our same basic positions as before the event/attack.
Oh come on. You honestly don’t think Trump is a disgusting embarrassment, unfit for an elected office? Really? I never thought I’d type these words, but Sarah Palin would be a better president than this fuckwad. She’s smarter, more articulate and less obnoxious. And, for all her faults, she probably does love this country and couldn’t be blackmailed by the Russians.
Perhaps, but I think the Trump opponents are on guard for just such an event. Regardless of the facts, there would be a reflexive don’t give Trump any credit reaction. Perhaps an over-reaction, but many people would consciously lean against a rally simply because they don’t want to give Trump any support.
I also voted ‘other’, in that we would rally around the idea of “America”, rather than any political figure. Now Trump (as did Bush) could become the focal point of that rally if he said the right things and did stuff that appealed to most Americans and in general stood up proud and tall and was somebody we could admire (for a time) despite our political differences…
Note that I said “If”. I truly don’t think the man has it in him. Any rallying would be fleeting and dissipated quickly by his actions.
IMHO as always. YMMV.
It will be blamed on him anyway.
There would be a half-dozen Pit threads condemning whatever he does, no matter what it is.
A significant number of Dopers will also be unable to imagine it, even if it happens.
Regards,
Shodan
The nation rallied around a Republican president after the real 9-11 and he used it to invade a country that had nothing to do with the attack, plunging the Middle East into chaos and creating ISIS. I think a lot of people would be less inclined to trust Trump this time around.
Ultimately, I don’t think anything will unite the country. Red and blue America are permanently divided and are not the same culture or country. I don’t know if letting Trump slaughter brown people the way we let Bush do is going to change that.
“There’s an old saying in Tennessee — I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can’t get fooled again.”
God, I miss that war criminal.
I’ll let you go away and put some actual thought into that statement. Come back when you understand the mistake you made and are ready to explain your error in critical thinking to the rest of the class. I’ll wait. Take your time.
Be that as it may, there may also be a segment of anti-Trumpers who would go full overboard and claim that Trump himself ordered the attack in false-flag style, etc. the nuttiness of which might ironically boost Trump in the polls.
Obama wasn’t those things. That is the difference.
Trump is grossly incompetent. He is embarrassing. He is authoritarian. He is treasonous. I didn’t say that about Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio or Jeb Bush.
How was Obama these things? Did Obama have his own justice department appoint a special counsel to investigate treason he may have partaken in? Was Obama constantly saying shameful things or being totally incompetent for the entire world to see? Did Obama talk about his love for dictators and how much he hated a free press and independent judiciary?
Bill Clinton was embarrassing (not as bad as Trump, but he did some embarrassing stuff). Obama has some issues with domestic spying programs and suppression of whistleblowers. I’d be fine if Obama were investigated or held accountable for that, but Obama wasn’t talking about ‘2nd amendment remedies’ either though.
I don’t get your response. Are you basically claiming no insults about public officials count, that they are all ‘just playing politics’? That sounds like the argument you are making. You seem to be making the argument that all of us would be saying these exact same things about any republican, and that none of the things we say are true, we are just ‘playing politics’. Again, I really don’t think you understand why so many people are opposed to Trumpism.
Trump is a dangerously incompetent person who preys on the worst in people (bigotry and tribalism). He probably works for our enemies (Russia) and he has no real respect for western values. You may think we’d say that about any republican we see, but we wouldn’t. I’d personally feel better if Pence or Ryan were president. I wouldn’t agree with them on the issues, but they wouldn’t have Trump’s flaws.
He held PT sessions at the white house. He picked people with basic competence - Cheney and Rumsfeld and the rest may have been “evil” by the standards of progressives/liberals, or even arguably were a little evil, but they had a job to do and got it done. The Bush admin had a consistent policy, it felt like they had their shit more or less together, it felt like Bush was just doing the basics as a C student.
My background is this: Voted Bush in 2000, did not vote in 2004, voted McCain in 2008, voted third party in 2012. And Clinton in 2016, due to Trump being the candidate(would have voted for Jeb or Marco begrudgingly - not Cruz, though.*
Anyway:
I would not change in my feelings towards Trump. He’s not Democratic, Republican, or even generic American politician. He’s self-centered, ignorant, and vulgar. I’d want him out even quicker. I don’t support Pence, be can at least see him trying to handle things in a crisis. I’d support, as I do now, impeaching(and removing/convicting) Trump and letting Pence be President until 2020.
It’d just be even more urgent than it already is.
*I did not like Hillary Clinton, but did like Obama(while not voting for him, I can see that he was great in many ways). Romney would have been a respectable leader, as would have McCain.
Exactly. Everyone, left and right, knows for sure that Trump’s reaction to a major terrorist attack would be overwhelming. I suppose there’s a chance that nuclear weapons may be involved.
The difference is that we have seen that strong, tough-guy strategies in 2001 got us into two wars: one quite justified, but has gone on for 17 years; the other was a damn fool mistake that we’re still trying to clean up. To say nothing of Guantanamo, which will stand the test of time about as well as locking up Americans during WWII in internment camps, or even worse disasters like Dred Scott.
So this time is that there’s a good portion of the population who learned the hard way that we ought to think before acting; and a not insignificant part of the population who LOVE acting before thinking (whether the question is war or the ballot box).
So, causing 600k Iraqi deaths, destabilizing the Middle East, and undermining Turkey a NATO ally is a C? That’s a hell of a curve. The lesson of Trump and Bush is that experiments with red state self governance iare always a catastrophe.
Perhaps I should have snipped the quote. I think it would’ve made clearer which part I thought was demonstrative of naked partisanship. I don’t particularly mind the criticism of Trump. I thought “He could preside over 4 years of peace and prosperity and appoint me to the Supreme Court, and I would still want him run out of town on a rail.” That seems over the top. YMMV.
Its not either or though. You can have 4 years of peace and prosperity and still have a president who holds our alliances together; unites the country; is professional, competent and dignified; consistently acts in America’s best interests and respects western values (free press, independent judiciary, checks and balances, transparency, freedom to vote, freedom of speech).
If I said ‘yeah Steve is a great worker. He likes to molest children in his spare time though’ that doesn’t make it ok or mean his positives mean we shouldn’t hold him accountable for his negatives. There are tons and tons of people who are great workers who do not molest children. Same with Trump. Whatever benefits there are under Trump can be had with someone who doesn’t have his massive flaws. I’ve never seen a politician as deeply flawed as Trump and lots of us worry he is moving the Overton window and making his brand of treasonous authoritarian incompetence seem socially acceptable.
Trump already has a go to excuse if this happens:“See? I told ya. But these stupid activist judges put the kibosh on my Muslim ban”
And Trump supporters will suck that jizz straight from his cock.
The huge tax cuts make it clear that support for Trump is not about fiscal responsibility; the porn stars make it clear support isn’t about morality, or character; the Russian collusion makes it clear that support isn’t about patriotism; and the corruption, cronyism, nepotism, all the Goldman Sach creeps, and Ben Carson’s $31k of office furniture make it clear that support for Trump is not about draining the swamp. Support for Trump is about white nationalism and as such, represents a far greater threat than any outside actor. Decent people will never rally around him.
Why would anyone attack the US now, when they can just stand outside and watch it burn?
Attacking the US now would be as pointless as telling a guy that his wallet got stolen while he’s being eaten by a shark. Yeah, that’s an inconvenience, but there are bigger issues.