A semi-gentle rant from a vegetarian

The BBQ Pit
1

I am not terribly peeved here (genteel, petite delicate flower that I am! :wink: ) But, I thought I’d repeat a few thoughts about how some people react to vegetarians and vegetarianism. Bear in mind, I am not hear to preach, or even to go into great detail about my personal reasons for my diet choice. I just thought I’d point out a few needlessly annoying things I have occasionally encountered in regards to my vegetarianims - In Real Life and on this board. I thought I’d enumerate my random thoughts and rants.

1. Unless I start nagging you, leave me alone.

Look, I know that some vegetarians are a total pain in the ass. Making rude comments and judgements about what you eat, making sanctimonious remarks, “holier than thou”, the whole 9 yards. But please - unless I start doing that to you, could you just assume that I want to mind my own business? I may, at some point, reveal that I am vegetarian. But that doesn’t mean I want to talk endlessly about it, or start a debate right on the spot. Could you give me the benefit of the doubt, and not just assume that I am some totally reactionary fanatic who is smugly looking down my nose at you? (It’s possible - yes - believe it or not - POSSIBLE - that I am NOT THINKING ABOUT, OR JUDGING WHAT YOU EAT.) Wow. What a concept.

2. Vegan and Vegetarian are not interchangable words.

All Vegans are vegetarians, but not all vegetarians are vegans. ALL vegetarians refrain from eating meat. Vegans are more strict in their diet, and also do not eat dairy products (milk, butter, cheese, eggs.) Please do not call all of us “vegans” - a lot of us are not, technically, vegans. I am not - I eat dairy products and eggs, so I’m a plain old vegetarian.

3. Vegetarians don’t eat fish or chicken.

Please stop asking about it, or saying that some vegetarians can eat fish or chicken, so why can’t !? Please don’t tell me that your aunt Tilly is a vegetarian, and she eats chicken - I don’t care, and it’s not convincing me. Aunt Tilly is not vegetarian, she just thinks she is. I am not pointing this out to be “holier than thou”, or to seperate myself from those fine folks who have adopted a good and sensible diet which limits their animal flesh intake. I have all the respect in the world for people who do this, but technically, according to many dictionaries and misc. vegetarian societies, fish and chicken do not fit the definition of the vegetarian diet.

4. I am sick of hearing “Plants have feelings too” and “I love to eat vegetarians - they taste really good!” and variations on these lines.

These are OLD, OLD, OLD, OLD, and tired old lines. They have long since stopped sounding clever, if they ever were clever to begin with. Please. They are NOT new, most vegetarians have heard them umpteen times.

5. Please stop waving meat in my face, or telling me all about the tasty meat dish you want to eat.

I am not asking this because I am actually offended, but because, once again, it’s OLD, OLD, OLD, OLD, OLD. See #4 above. It’s been DONE, folks. OK? Get it? I am totally bored with it. Just let it go.

6. Not all vegetarians chose their diet for strictly moral reasons.

Before you label a vegetarian as a “hypocrite” (something I discover many people are just itching to do for some reason) find out why they are vegetarian. If they are veggie because of health reasons, they are not a “hypocrite” if they use leather or other non-food animal products. It is a DIET - meaning it’s about what you EAT. Other vegetarians may want to “cut back” on other animal products like leather, but may not be willing give up every bit of it. That is their choice. Unless they are preaching at YOU about what products you should or should not use, it is none of your business what they do.

Bottom line, unless a vegetarian starts bugging you, and judging YOU first, leave them alone. I know many people can do this, but a few people seem to have a problem controlling themselves…

Well, that’s all for now. I feel better now. See? Pretty genteel. Not one bit of profanity, and this is the Pit! I am glad I got that off my chest. I will go eat my nuts and seeds now. Thank you!

2

Wow ! … what kind of produce crawled up your ass and died?

But seriously, I do not care what you eat … eat a big bowl of tofu with wheatgerm nut crunch berry surprise (w/extra curds and lentils and sprouts). Eat eggs … or don’t. Drink milk … or don’t.

But don’t assume that I care.

I eat food because it tastes good. And I like to eat it. And if I stop, I fall down and die!

Carry on with your rant si vous voulez.

3

I felt like I was driven to it! All the issues I addressed were things that I just have had to deal with waaay too many times.

I don’t assume that you, Lazarus, care. I do actually encounter many people who, when they discover that I am veggie (usually this is over a meal, it’s not like I make a special announcement or something) do not care. Bless them, all, for NOT caring! But trust me, I have also been pestered a few too many times by people who seem to CARE too much. And, I have noticed the same old tired lines, tired arguments, tired assumptions, on message boards and in real life. So, starting this topic was a little cathartic for me.

4

My daughter (17 and a senior this year) fits into the semi-vegetarian group, she eats fish and chicken but won’t touch any product that comes from a warm-blooded four-legged creature, including leather. Sometimes it’s a little difficult shopping for her and feeding her but I deal with it. She doesn’t push it on anyone else and is willing to take her turn cooking for the meat eaters around here.

What really pisses me off is the people that you referred to… the ones who refuse to leave it alone and insist on trying to get her to eat meat at family reunions and such.

Two years ago my nieces husband gave her a beef hotdog at one of these outings and told her it was chicken. She took one bite and spit it out. She left the picnic and hasn’t gone to one since. He laughed about it and thought it was funny. She, on the other hand, felt totally violated and hasn’t spoken to him since.

I guess it just comes down to common courtesy and respect for others. Some have it and some don’t.

5

I realize it’s become less and less “Politically Acceptable” to eat meat (and, Yosemitebabe, this isn’t directed at you, it’s a general statement), so I would imagine that some people who like their steak tend to anticipate the annoyingly stereotypical “eating meat is evil” rant whenever certain buzzwords come up, such as “vegetarian”, “vegan”, “PETA” (okay, that last was an acronym).

I usually never give it much thought. If someone doesn’t seem to care for making a conversation about eating/moral/whatever preferences, that’s all well and good. If someone wants to exchange ideas, I’ll go along with that. If someone wants to lecture me, they can bend over and let me shove my leftover chicken bones up their ass.

What about “If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?” joke? C’mon, don’t tell me you don’t chuckle at that one! It’s a hoot!

6

Well, I am the opposite of a vegetarian. A carnivore? I dunno.

I don’t eat vegetables at all, though it’s not really a choice thing. And because I have such a crappy weird diet, I never presume to comment on other folks’ dietary habits. What others eat is up to them, as long as they aren’t seriously unhealthy because of it.

But I nevertheless get, from damned near everybody, aghast stares, rude comments, foolish attempts, and interfering bastards who just will not leave the subject alone, and think they can ‘convert me’ by sneaking a carrot onto my plate.

Argh!

7

I thought that was a good, well-reasoned post. But one thing you have to understand, yosimitebabe is that self-proclaimed vegetarians are like mimes and the French. People just can’t help poking at them a little. I think it’s a genetic thing.

8

Oops… I’m terribly sorry to you and others like pldennison and PETA Tzunami for doing this. I thought “vegan” was a net-shortening, that is, abbreviation of “vegetarian”. I’m not a vegetarian critic or detractor, although I have some issues with the politics involved.

What is the proper term one would like to be called one was a “lacto-ovo vegetarian”? Or is that the proper term?

9

I’m sorry, that’s not clear. What I mean is from your description of yourself, you seem to be a “lacto-ovo” vegetarian, so what I am asking is are the terms “vegetarian” and “lacto-ovo vegetarian” interchangable?

10

lacto-ovo sounds kinky and dirty! … smile

11

yosemitebabe,

I agree with you wholeheartedly and I’m an omnivore. “Can’t we all just get along” and all that.

However, let me ask a question to you (which includes a mini-rant-lette of my own):

My evil-bitch cousin-in-law is some form of vegetarian. (I’m NOT implying that vegetarian=evil-bitch). I don’t know what kind since I avoid her as much as possible. She’s also LOUD about it.

Anyway, my folks have started a fairly strict diet. The one thing they really miss is bread, since the bread they have to eat has to have x grams of fiber and less than y grams of fat, etc. and the commercial kinds of bread that meet those specs are pretty awful, apparently. I decided to bake them some homemade bread that met those specs. The bread recipe involved a little honey, about 1/2 an egg-white and some non-fat milk. My evil-bitch cousin-in-law was there when I arrived with the risen, but uncooked loaf. When I baked the bread, she started saying how good it smelled and asked if she could have some. I said “Sure” but warned her that it contained animal products which I listed. She got very upset at my “offensiveness”. She said that vegetarians resent being informed that animal products are in food and I got the beginnings of one of her typical 45 minute lectures (which I let her get out about 20 seconds of).

My question is this: Do normal (ie, not Evil-Bitch) vegetarians object to being informed that animal products are involved in non-obvious ways in food? I mean, I wouldn’t bother to warn/inform you that the Beef Wellington contains beef, or that the spam contains pig’s spleens, but if, say, the tomato sauce contains butter as opposed to olive oil, would you be upset if I let you know that in advance? Frankly, I think she’s just insane, but wanted to run this by a normal vegetarian, just in case I’d committed some horrible breach of ettiquite unwittingly.

Thanks!

Fenris

12

I wish, dear yosemite babe, you could have been privy to some of the conversations that ran rampant on a wedding planning usenet group I used to read on this topic. Of course, after reading that stuff, your rant would be less gentle. Let me get the basic gist of the discussion:

Vegetarian bride: We don’t eat meat. We plan on having meat-free dishes at our wedding reception.

10,000 other meat-eating newsgroup readers: [please read the following in hysterical tone] WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!? How could you! How could you be so cruel to your guests, who expect a good meal when they come to your wedding! Vegetarian dishes aren’t filling! They’re weird! You call that hospitality? You’re selfish and I hope no one gives you any good gifts! (Ad nauseum)

I know these same people wouldn’t insist that a jewish couple have pork on their menu for the gentile guests. Come ON. For some reason, however, people consider vegetarians to be capricious and difficult, instead of, say, following a diet (or adhering to beliefs that matter to them). It’s a strange thing. Why are vegetarians regarded like mimes?

13

Fenris, your cousin-in-law is a nut. Of course veggies want to be informed of less-than-obvious animal products lurking in the food they are served. I don’t want to find out the hard way that you put bacon in the potato salad.

14

I usually don’t even tell people around here that I am vegetarian unless I am asked, because I get some of the reactions that you mentioned.

And I also get the argument that humans were not meant to be vegetarian, yadda, yadda, yadda.

My response to that one is usually something like: although it is probable that humans were not originally vegetarian, in a civilized modern society like ours, we have the freedom to make many decisions according to the dictates of our conscience [or someone could insert dietetic needs, or whatever they chose].

This works with everyone except my elderly father, who is convinced that vegetarianism is bad for me and will shorten my life. I just put up with that because I love him (in high school my parents forbade me to become a vegetarian, and I wasn’t enough of a rebel back then to defy them).

Seems like people need to comment on anything they don’t really understand, or what is different to them. Not many people bother me about it anymore, though.

15

I had a dinner party at my house where I cook my world famous Panneed veal, and Fettucine Alfredo. One of my guests (wife of my friend,) refused to eat the veal (more for me so that’s ok,) but insisted on talking about why eating veal was evil at my dinner.

I told her that I was glad to see she was getting this all off her chest right now because she would never again have the opportunity to comment on one of my dinners.

Not that this is particularly related to anything.

But it did spur this thought. One of the reasons why vegetarians piss me off, and I feel the irresistable urge to taunt them, is that they DO NOT tend to be innocuous about it. Oftentimes the Vegetarianism is in your face, as they sit there at a restaurant sighing loudly like resigned martyrs while the rest of us barbaric types chow down on Bambi or something. Inevitably the preaching follows.

Now not all vegetarians are like this, but if you have this experience a couple of times you begin to cringe when somebody announces (usually at a dinner with meat,) that they are a vegetarian. When that happens I just want to slap them with a porkchop!

My apologies of course to those long suffering vegetarians who are considerate and thoughtful concerning their disability. :slight_smile:

16

Scylla: At the recent Norfolk Doperfest, there were at least three vegetarians in attendance: me, my wife, and elelle. None of us said a word about other people’s meals. My wife, meanwhile, endured (more-or-less friendly) barbs all day long from one person in attendance about being a vegetarian. And when I say “endured,” I mean they went on all day long, from about 1:00 p.m. until about 10:00 p.m. After a while, it got really, really old, as it always does.

You make the call.

17

That woman at your dinner party was just plain rude. If I ever were eating at your house, I would probably compliment (and envy) your culinary abilities even though I wouldn’t eat the dishes that contain meat

I think your tease about the v-word being a disability is quite funny. I agree with pldennison that the teasing could get old, but sounds like you only do it to people who are “in your face” about it.

18

pldenison and Spider woman:

Good points. No, I think it’s rude that Somebody taunt somebody for no reason. Ihave no problem with anbodys culinary beleifs provided they are polite about it (Unless it’s some depraved fool who likes his steak well-done, in which case I attack.)

I entertain a lot because I enjoy cooking. I had announced the menu with the invitations, so there really was no excuse for her behavior.

I had my annual crawfish boil a month ago. Two of the attendees could not eat shellfish, and one was a vegetarian cardiologist. All three had the courtesy to notify me beforehand, and it was my pleasure to be a good host and provide tasty and alternate substitutes.

Again, I know Vegetarians just want to be treated as if they were normal human beings. :slight_smile:

19

Re: the wedding dinner.

Vegetarians are a relatively small minority in this country. Whether that’s good or bad, I won’t get into right now, but I’d think that if you wanted to entertain your guests–the point of a reception, right?–you’d work to entertain them well, not to force your political/dietary beliefs on them. Most caterers will have a veggie dish available if people ask for it first, but how many will do, say, 4 rubber chickens?

I for one don’t like veggies much. I don’t like the texture or the “green” flavor that a lot of them have. And don’t even try to tell me that tofu tastes like meat if you do it right. That’s a crock. So, if I would be expected to provide vegetarian dishes for my V(of whatever kind) guests, assuming I knew they were, why shouldn’t a vegetarian provide a big ol’ greasy, bloody, dripping, red, rare T-bone for me? Because vegetarian is political and carnivore isn’t?

But I grew up in beef country. Ya ain’t had a good steak until you’ve been to Cattlemen’s Cafe in the Oklahoma City stockyards.

Stofsky.

Note to the East Coast: aged beef does not mean it’s old. It means that it’s good.

20

After reading the responses to my “Is it moral to hunt?” post (sorry, don’t know how to link), I started to think that vegetarianism was the way to go.

You are right that some vegetarians and vegans can be assholes about it, but I agree with most of your gentle rant and I would like to become vegetarian.

I also found a book about entophagia- eating bugs- and it doesn’t seem that bad, and a solution to a lot of problems, seeing as bugs are so plentiful, and they don’t take up a lot of grazing space.

Would you happen to know if eating bugs is considered eating meat to most vegetarians?

I’m serious, I’m not trying to troll.