Saying it and demonstrating it are two different things.
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Exactly! My disagreement with a Trump voter who says “Lesser Of Two Evils” — or who says “The Greater Good” — is about content, not form: it’s that I think he’s coming up with the wrong answer, but asking the right question.
It’s that a guy with an A-or-B choice can say he only voted for B because the alternative was A — and I’ll listen as he elaborates, because that type of argument seems fine. It’ll merely prompt me to ask, okay, with that as your goal, explain why you’d expect worse results with A than with B.
Before you take another victory lap, let’s just see how the next 12 months unfold. Or you know what… go ahead and take your victory lap now. It may be your last. Wear yourself out.
The WB came forward and they gave him guidance on who to contact. There’s no evidence of anything beyond that. That’s pretty small potatoes as far as political lies go, IMO. YMMV.
The “smoking gun” is the transcript the White House put out. For any other president that would trigger immediate resignation. That doesn’t make it any less of a “smoking gun”.
There is also the fact that it is justifying not making the A or B choice, but rather the C choice or not making your choice heard at all.
But many of the Trump voters just take it a a given that Clinton was Teh Evil, infinitely bad, and so Trump, no matter how bad himself, was by default the lessor.
Now, I won’t deny that there are those on the other side who did the same analysis reversed, but I would tend to side with them. I don’t see Trump as infinitely bad, there are a few people I can think of that would be even worse than him. But they were not running.
We didn’t just see how things would play out, we made predictions as to how things would go, how each of them would run the office of the presidency. Now, obviously, the predictions on Clinton are a bit moot now, as we cannot see that would have happened, but most of the predictions for Trump are pretty spot on. I saw him as someone that would use and abuse the office for personal gain and aggrandizement, and that the only check against him being an authoritarian dictator being the systems that we have in place to prevent exactly that. Systems that are creaking under the strain that is being put on them, and showing damage from the deliberate actions in chipping them away.
“Yeah, no”? Are you quoting “Office Space”?
“Paraphrase”
Does anyone get the feeling the republicans are not hep to Google yet?
The problem is that you are taking Schiff literally but not seriously. For me I take him seriously and to have been paraphrasing the gist of the phone call, with accuracy. Literally.
Google on paraphrase:
Do note it’s a self-reported $125 million coming from Trump campaign, the RNC, and other campaign entities. In addition, this is self-reported by the same people who took a sharpie to a weather map.
…but reality will only admit of choices “A” and “B” being the potential winner. It is not enough to simply withhold a vote from “A.” There’s vote to let the guy into the office, and there’s vote to keep the guy OUT of the office. They are NOT the same thing. To be meaningful, the vote must be cast in favor of “B.” A vote for “c,” “d,” “e,” etc. is tantamount to a half-vote in favor of “A” and another half-vote in favor of “B.”
Reminds me of a discussion I had with a very good friend of mine. Big Bernie supporter. When it was getting close I said “Ya know, we must be careful, Trump might win”. She would not believe it and said that the women of America would not let that happen. I think and hope she voted for Clinton. But she might have done a Bernie write in.
SHE said the women of America would not let that happen. I was counting on that too.
It’s also basically a wasted vote. No third-party candidate ever received more than 27½% and none have even come close since 1912.
This is pointless folks. People are defending their choice to give a 2 year old a book of matches and a can of gasoline. There is no reasoning with them. They will defend there choice to the grave before admitting that they may have been wrong.
That is the Trump supporter.
I voted 3rd party in the last presidential election. I knew it was the equivalent of a non-vote, but I did it as a protest against both major candidates, and because I don’t like leaving a blank spot on a ballot.
I’m 99% sure I’m not voting third party this time.
Then you own a teeny-tiny itsy-bitsy portion of the responsibility for Trump and everything he’s done. Significantly less than those who actually voted for him, but still a teeny-tiny bit.
Good for you for learning your lesson… but it should be 100%. And I’m assuming you’re planning to vote for the Democratic candidate.
I, in my unmatched wisdom of my early twenties, voted third party in 2000 (write in for Dave Barry). Even though I do not live in Florida, I still felt a bit of shame that those like me lead to that outcome.
As someone upthread said, voting is a chess move, not a valentine. The price of democracy is vigilance over those we promote to govern us, and taking our civic obligations seriously.
If Trump is on the ballot, please don’t vote ‘I don’t care’. Faced with a wildfire or hurricane, don’t spit in the wind. Do something about it.
Yes, I am unhappy with third party voters when the information and facts of what a total mess Trump would be was right in front of you. I find it hard to excuse third party voters in a case like this.
I keep clicking on the thread; I also have simple question(s) for Trump supporters, or anyone who can’t vote enthusiastically for the lesser of evils in 2016, or any D in 2020.
I don’t want to wade through the thread to see answers, if any. Mostly we get “No You” from Bubba; and get other non-answers and equivocations.
Say it ain’t so, Joe! This SDMB has la crème de la crème. Surely our right-wingers are more informed and more articulate than the right-wingers posting on Yahoo, or just munching chips as a FoxPotato.
So, please summarize the answers we get. With Lindsey and Mitch showing it’s OK to criticize Donnie for the betrayal of the Kurds, I guess that question goes away. But what do they think about Cohen, Manafort, Betsy DeVos, frauds, sociopathy, greed and racism? Are they OK with being in Putin’s pocket? OK with the meeting where only three were present: Putin, Trump and Putin’s translator? Is it all “Same same” because of Hillary’s e-mails?
One Gopster says he’s a “fiscal conservative.” I dunno what that even means anymore and AFAICT neither does he. Cut taxes some more to further starve the beast?
I’m not convinced that it wouldn’t have been a shitshow under Hillary, but I know Trump has been bad. There’s no “lesson” to learn except don’t nominate a garbage candidate (which both major parties did).
I see Democratic front runners that I don’t absolutely distrust and I’m fairly certain they’ll nominate someone palatable. I’m leaving that 1% chance of something going sideways but it’s going to take a lot for me to cast a vote this time that’s not against Trump. (In other words, Democrat.)
Why? What kind of “shitshow” would Ms. Clinton have been the ringmaster for? Give specifics based on stuff she’s actually said and done.
It is quite possible to think Clinton and Trump were equally bad…if you totally ignore Trump’s past history and believe every damn rumor told about Clinton.