‘I looked at the photo, couldn’t ID the person, or if it was a person at all, laughed and was kind enough to reply, while considering if I should bill them hourly for any investigation work to research this.’
He does not even have to try to guess about who might have been driving his car or why. He does not have to say “maybe” anything.
He could simply say that he does not keep accurate business records about who borrows his car, because he is not required to keep such records. He could say that he does not know who was driving his car that day, and is really not particularly interested in spending the time to try to ascertain who it was.
If the equipment that took the picture is inadequate or faulty, that is not his problem. If the company charged with finding out the identity of the driver has difficulty doing so, that is not his problem.
I think y’all are assuming some things about the law here. It’s entirely possible that the law is written such that if the photograph is sufficient to identify the vehicle, but not the driver, and the owner is unable or unwilling to determine the driver, the owner is assessed the fine. I don’t know if that’s the case, but it wouldn’t surprise me.
You can go ahead and laugh at the picture in court, but if the license plate is clear, the judge might laugh right back.
That’s the way it works here…but that’s not really very relevant…
- Under the 5th, you cannot be compelled to answer, but doesn’t mean they can’t ask right? So if you volunteer the info its still legal yes?
- In a family with multiple members, a “housemates” situation where a car is shared or maybe even an extended family household I can imagine it being genuinely difficult to determine with certainty who was driving on a particular day a few weeks ago.
I got one of those tickets. They even gave me a url to watch a video of my truck running the light. The letter said that by running the light my car had damaged the traffic system of the town and that if I did not send in the 35 bucks or so the city attorney would file a law suit to recover damages.
Yeah, right.
I wrote a reply saying let me know when to expect service and I would be happy to answer their lawsuit. strangely enough, no process server ever showed up.
The cities around here let these camera guys issue “tickets” that aren’t tickets in exchange for the city getting a percentage of the take. They are damn near unenforceable, but they don’t care since most people don’t read the fine print and just pay them.
Of course, this is Texas. Not a normal state.
If you’re actually in front of a judge, the last thing you want to be is glib.
Best to just give a simple answer. “Several of my brother-in-laws borrow my car from time to time your Honor. Honestly, I can’t tell from the picture which this might be and don’t recall the date in question.”
Acting smug and dummying up will likely not impress a judge.
Yeah, I have to admit, that might work.
The really big question is this: If the photo “ticket” is ignored, will he get a real notice from the court to appear?
That is the big question. And if it goes to court, he can simply say: “That picture is not me. The prosecution has the burden of proof. They did not prove that it was me driving my car. That is all, your honor.” Not guilty.
This is assuming they don’t just dismiss the ticket if you weren’t driving and you took it to court.
I’ve always understood, that as the owner of the car, you are liable for any damages that incur as a result of the vehicles 'behavior" regardless of who drives it. The exception being if it is stolen.
I would assume that it is perfectly legal for the government to nail the owner of the car who has the opportunity to deflect the blame with the “snitch ticket”.
Here in the U.K. if the driver cannot be identified then the registered keeper of the vehicle is liable.
That said, it is not uncommon for criminals here to clone license plates. These are, of course, particularly effective when attached to cars which are the same model and colour as the original.
400 bucks! Around here they’re $50 and no points. People tend to just pay them at that price.
In most areas the red light tickets are classed in the same group as parking tickets. If you park illegally YOU the car owner get the ticket regardless of who drove and parked the car illegally.
In most, (but not all, check your local laws), this is how it’s classed.
Would you go to court and say “I know my car was illegally parked, but I didn’t drive it?” You could but how do you think you’d go? It’d be similar with this sort of thing.
I live in Orlando, Florida and the rules are similar here. No points. I’ve noticed that the city has actually starting putting “photo enforced” warning signs on the intersections that have cameras. The county is supposed to start putting up cameras also. I wonder if they will have warning signs also?
I noticed in a news article, that the city had issued over 48,000 camera tickets. That works out to several thousand tickets per intersection over the last two years. No wonder they want to keep the gravy train open.
My TomTom GPS actually has a POI file I can download to warn me about photo enforced intersections.
My wife was recently in traffic school because of a red light camera ticket. She said that about 75% of the class was there for the same reason.
Here is a list of the penalties for red light for various states.
That site is out of date. It says that the penalty in California is $100. It’s really over $400.
Cedar Rapids has red light camerasand they can clearly see license plates. If you sold the car, they have different plates.
My take is that I’d rather have the cops out looking for violent criminals than sitting watching an intersection.
If you don’t want a ticket, don’t break the law
If you loan out your car, you are still responsible for what happens in it.
Having said that, I don’t like the fact that most of the money goes intop private pockets. I’d rather see it go into the city or county accounts, like other tickets do.
Hey, I speed sometimes like everyone else, and when I get a ticket, I pay it.
I found another list that shows California as $446. The list is almost out of date. Florida is going up to $158.
Where does this stop? What if I loan my car to a friend and (unknown to me) he goes out and gets drunk, has an accident and kills 32 people? Am I on the hook?
Let’s have a crazy scenario where I can’t recall who the car was lent to but the above driver escaped from the accident and was at large? (And it could be proven that it was NOT me driving)
Do I get 32 counts of vehicular manslaughter?
except you didn’t break the law. someone else did.
not exactly. you’re responsible in tort for certain types of injuries inflicted by your car, regardless if you’re driving it or not, and this varies wildly by state. you’re responsible for civil infractions for improperly parked cars in most places.
it’s not exactly a well-settled question whether the owner ought to be responsible for a user’s moving violation, though. would you accept responsibility if someone was caught speeding in your car (and I mean pulled-over caught)? would you gladly take the points and the hit on your insurance like the driver because, hey, if you didn’t want a ticket, you shouldn’t have broken the law?