I was going to respond to the person upthread who said they like Sansa, so we could dismiss them out of hand. I hated Sansa in the first two books. She was basically the reason her father was dead and her sister was forced out into the world on her own. Her mind full of fairytale cobwebs was a definite reason for despise.
However, after the events that led up to Joffrey’s death she grew up pretty quickly. I don’t know whether Petyr MEANT to train her in courtly intrigue, but that’s the effect…the point where her fantasies fell to dust was (in my opinion) on the deck of the ship that Petyr spirited her off on, when Petyr ordered her knight-rescuer killed. Kablam! This ain’t Le Morte d’Arthur, girlie!
One thing that’s suprised me in discussions I’ve read is that many people seem to think that Danys and her dragons will march straight into Westeros and reclaim her rightful throne. At least, that seemed to be the consensus on Amazon.
That’s not how GMMR works. Long-losts heir do not reclaim their throne and everyone lives happily ever after. My personal guess is that Danys will almost make it to the throne, then die or be prevented from ruling in some way.
There’s also the possibility that Dany will arrive on Westeros just in time to help save her kingdom from the Others, and working side by side with Jon Snow as Commander of the Black Watch, will forge an alliance or at least a truce until Jon’s real ancestry is revealed. Whether, at that point, Jon and Dany will be agreeable to a political marriage and a sharing of power as the last two Targaryens is a plot point I’ll leave to Martin.
I don’t think you should despise Sansa in the first two books. She shows a lot of courage at King’s Landing. Remember, at the beginning of the books, she’s an 11 year old girl. She’s alone, defenseless, surrounded by enemies. Her family’s in rebellion against the throne, and she’s under the control of a sadist who beats and humiliates her for his pleasure. She’s able to survive in that environment, and even thrive, and that takes a lot of courage.
Admittedly, most of the hate after Ned’s execution is residual from her simpering, privileged, naive worldview in the first book. And I really don’t think she loses that entirely, despite her treatment by Joffrey and witnessing her father’s beheading, because when the old knight-turned-court-jester first speaks to her in the Godwood, she grasps onto him, however doubtful she might be, as some noble savior, despite his current state. And even after she witnesses HIM killed at Petyr’s orders, she still holds hope for that privilege and simple worldview to be back when she realizes that her aunt Lysa is involved in Petyr’s schemes. Only when she realizes that Lysa is completely insane and witnesses Petyr toss her out the skydoor does she really seem to come to the realization that her old world, the world she spent 11 years believing in, was smoke and mirrors.
In that sense, her relationship with Sandor Clegane is a classic mixing of opposites. The Hound has no illusions. Period. He knows knights for what they are, some noble, some very much not. He knows the nobility and the court for what they are. The Hound may not be the nicest man in the kingdom, and he’s no knight (and wouldn’t accept the “honor”), but he’s a better man than his brother or half of Joffrey/Tommen/Cersei’s Kingsguard. This is an utter contrast to Sansa, and I think the fact that we see him first most thoroughly through Sansa’s POV chapters colored my opinion of him.
Has the sevenfold god shown any power at all in the world? The church of the sevenfold god is powerful, but I don’t recall any evidence of that god acting.
Not yet, that I can remember. But, up to very recently in the world of Westeros, no religion has shown any real power, has it? Only within the last few months, book-time, has Rh’llor shown any power, and his supposed priest, Thoros, was as surprised as anyone when his illusions stopped being illusions. The Old Ones may have been working behind the scenes for millennia, but we only know of them as real through their communication with Bran. The Drowned God certainly seems to have done things through Damphair. The Seven, the Many-Faced God of the Braavosi and the Dothraki horse gods haven’t really made any “real” appearances or overt actions. Did the Valyrian gods go defunct when Valyria was destroyed or are they still lurking about?
This in particular shows me one of the reasons I love the series so far. In the beginning, Sasna and the Kingslayer were on the short list of ‘Folks I can’t stand’ in the books. By the current series end, I felt a sort-of empathy for Sasna, and… Well, let’s just say the last scene with the Kingslayer actually had me cheering.
Jamie, Brienne, and Anya all get my votes for faves. I know it has come up in other threads, but I wonder how they’ll cast Brienne? She is, in every description, supposed to be ugly, and I know casting types really, -really- hate doing that for female roles.
Incidentally I agree somewhat that Feast of Crows could have been a little more purposeful in advancing the plot but it does do a good job of setting up some of the religions on Westeros. Clearly there is a major religious war getting mixed up with the clash of kings.
Incidentally one thing that has been nicely foreshadowed in Game of Thrones is Tyrion’s expertise on dragons. When Dany unleashes her dragons on Westeros, I expect Tyrion will be on the opposite side devising ways to kill them.
I suspect Damphair is just quite good at CPR and artificial respiration, myself. Good at almost drowning people. People can be weirdly affected by great privation. I don’t have a great deal of interest in his people, though, and as often as not I’ll skip past the Greyjoy stuff. I do like Asha, but not enough to slog through all that.
This is my theory, yes. Which suggests to me that it won’t be that simple.
I love Martin. I’ve read and reread his books. I play on the authorized MUSH online because partying with Lannisters is almost as much fun as it sounds. I recently read Fevre Dream – not part of ASOIAF, of course, but a fairly short novel by Martin that gives me a pretty good idea of how he plots. It’s just like ASOIAF in that good people gain no strength just by the virtue of being good – they have to work for their victory. Unexpected characters die and things most assuredly do not work out in the way you might expect.
IIRC he knows a lot more about the histories, dragon-wise, than most. He quotes a bit here and there, and passes it off as the sort-of “While everyone else was riding tourney, I was in the library” type-of thing. Again, IIRC, its played in a very off-hand sort-of way. Very throw-away. But I also suspect it’ll come into play.
It’s one of the early Tyrion chapters in GOT, the one where he is traveling to the Wall along with Jon Snow. There is a couple of pages about his fascination for dragons and how he visited the cellar in King’s Landing where the dragon skulls were stored.
In this chapter he is shown reading a book on dragons. It describes dragonbone which is supposedly black because of high iron content. I wonder if this will be important later on. Perhaps some kind of magnetic weapon?
How do you figure? Thoros was a fraud, certainly. He was known to dump wildfire on his swords to make them flame, not through any magic. And we have witnesses to Melisandre assassinating Renly and Stannis with shadow-demons. How did she do that, if she is a fraud?
Thoros WAS a fraud, until his magic started to suddenly work. But Melisandre may be a huckster…she has real magic, but it may not come from Rh’llor. Remember when Maester Aemon advised Jon about the fact that Stannis’s blade didn’t give off heat? It should have, if it were real. Melisandre may be using real magic, but not actually be a Red Priestess. Lord only knows who she’s actually working for…the cabal that’s preparing Westeros for Danys, maybe?
