“Oh, sorry, was there a conversation going on here?”
>>>>> goes back to dancing.
(Incidentally, there IS a difference between doing a happy dance over Uday and Qsay and doing a happy dance over 9-11. Uday and Qsay actually committed crimes against humanity (breaking the bones in a soccer player’s feet b/c he lost a match? wtf?), the people who lost their lives in 9-11 are just mushrooms* who happen to live in America.)
mushroom: (n.) people keep you in the dark and feed you shit. IE: an average person living within the system.
While I am reluctant to intervene in this little festival with actual information, I hesitate to interject that it is not at all clear that Sadaam actually did gas the Kurds. Please do update the invective. As has been discussed before, with citations, it seems likely some incidents attributed to Sadaam were actually Iranian military efforts.
I’m loathe to try and improve on what Jodi said and that’s not exactly unexpected.
I will though add that while I’ll neither celebrate nor mourn their deaths, I’m under no misconception that had I been directly exposed to their cruelty as an Iraqi that I’d not be banging an old pan in the streets this very moment.
It’s relatively easy for me to sit here thousands of miles away from their atrocities and say “They’re dead. It’s a good thing. Let’s move on.” But had I personally experienced the horrible violence against the innocents that were a part of these two’s daily mantra, my present joy would no doubt be limitless.
And that’s a shame. The seeds of anger and resentment and need for retribution these two pieces of shit have sown are going to permeate their society for decades to come. They’ve dehumanized a substantial portion of the population and that kind of crap isn’t just forgotton or forgiven over there. It’s a terrible thing that’s happened and there’s no Persian rug big enough to sweep it under.
I doubt Saddam is mourning their loss with the same sadness a traditional father would. I do suspect though that he’s saddened to know his seed is now kaput. While I hope his death too comes soon, he needs to experience at least some period of remorse for the unconscionable decisions he’s made over the years. This is hopefully a welcome start to that process.
Yes, I am aware of the Iranian theory, I was replying in kind to the mentioning of Saddam gassing the Kurds.
Plus, why should you be reluctant to update with actual information? I’m not above correction, so you don’t really need the pompous attitude all the time. It detracts from the point you are making.
Joy at the death of Idi Amin: OK
Glee at the death of the children of Saddam Hussein: OK
Happiness at the death of Strom Thurmond: Most Awful Thing Ever
So with Strom representing the zero point at which no happiness at his death is permissible and Idi, Uday and the other one (and presumably Saddam himself and Osama bin Laden) representing the “death must be celebrated” point, can I offer up some names to find out how much rejoicing at their deaths is permissible?
To: Saddam Hussein
President and Glorious Leader-for-Life
The People’s Liberation Palace
Somewhere in a Bunker, Iraq
From: Shodan
Some Schmuck You Never Heard Of
The SDMB
Somewhere in Cyberspace
Your Excellency:
It is with deep personal emotion that I take this time to share my reactions upon hearing of the loss of your two sons in the ongoing unpleasantness between your country and the United States.
While I never had the experience of meeting either of your sons in person (as my daughter is not of marriageable age), I understand that each was prominent in local Iraqi affairs. One son was involved in prison reform, and the other had exciting new ideas on how to motivate Iraq’s athletes to raise their performance to new levels.
I know we share a deep regret that you were not present during their last moments.
While I know your loss is great, perhaps you can console yourself that when your own time comes to pass Beyond, the souls of those who you all affected so deeply during your tenure as Iraqi leader will be waiting and eager to afford you and yours a warm welcome.
Strom Thurmond might have been a scumbag at some point, but he never killed anyone for laughs and he actually changed his views later in life (maybe not to your satisfaction, but there was a definite change).
Idi Amin and Saddam and his sons are as evil as humans can get. Strom was an absolute amateur compared to these guys. Hell, Strom couldn’t even have sat on the same bench. He wasn’t even playing the same game.
Otto, I’m concerned about burdening you with the prospect of squeezing someone inbetween the raping murderers of thousands and the South Carolina Senator. Seriously dude, don’t strain yourself in such a magnificent quest.
While I agree wholeheartedly with this statement and always have, there is a difference between believing this and actually being happy, joyous, excited and elated that someone is dead. Those are the sort of emotions you reserve for when a loved one dies after being in continuous and excruciating pain for a very long time. I understand being gleeful when someone in that situation dies.
Now, I do understand that two horrible, despicable, vile individuals are dead and therefore will no longer be able to torture, maim and kill. But someone is going to take their places. You can’t destroy evil by killing a couple people and being happy about it doesn’t make the deaths any more effective.
Why is it that people can spew that watching violence desensitizes individuals and that it’s horrible and a travesty and then the same people will express their desire to physically dance and laugh with joy on top of the graves of people?
Yes, some people need killing and when it happens, it is an effective thing. However, laughing at and taunting living family members, celebrating and being joyful that they are dead–that’s simply sad. Can’t people simply accept that they are dead, be satisfied that they shall never harm another person and go on? I grant additional leeway to those who have been directly and personally affected by these vile people, BTW. But people who have watched this all on television, read it sitting in their comfy chair while surfing the net? Their grasp of raw humanity is conveniently cushioned with comfort.
I can’t really find the words I need to convey this. I’m not crying or even remotely sad over these deaths–I think they were fair and justified, if not a little too painless. But celebrating? I think I’ll reserve mine for when people survive against odds, not when people who had it coming die.
The differences in degree of enormity between the deeds of Strom and Uday and Qusay are irrelelvant. The point that was made over and over again by the people who gave me shit in the Strom threads is that rejoicing over the death od anyone, no mater how wicked, is wrong, wrong, wrong. Now nobody posting thus far scolded me in that thread, but if Scylla or Quixotix78 so much as peep, I’ll be on them like ugly on an ape.
<pulls out handkerchief>
And now, For God’s sake, let us sit upon the ground and tell sad stories of the deaths of kings.
<sniffles>
I’m not sure what you’re trying to say in this post. Is it that since the atrocities these two committed didn’t happen to you or yours then you have no concern regarding their death? Or is it that you just don’t care one way or the other that 2 of the most vile, despicable people on earth are no longer able to continue with their evil actions? Please explain.
For me, I think it is a good thing that these two are no longer alive. I think it will lessen the amount of resistance in Iraq, I think it serves the interest of justice, and I think it stops them from further acts of their horrific brand of evil. I think it will encourage others to consider turning in Saddam and others. I think it is a step in the direction of peace in Iraq.
For those reasons, and the desire for righteous retribution, that I am happy they are dead. I would even go so far as to say I take pleasure in the fact that they are dead. I won’t be joking about it, or buying “TOW the Hussein children” T-Shirts, but I am gratified they are dead.
Guin, what did you think they were gonna say? They weren’t gonna give up the goods.
The best we could have done was gone through an arduous trial whereupon people would have chimed in about the trumped-up charges that Bush and his unfair military tribunal would have put on them, and then they would have been either hanged or shot, and the end result would have been the same, except for some BS notion of fair play and a lot of bitching about the process it took to get us there.
IMO, it’s a hell of a lot better this way. It’s over and done with. Thank Allah they resisted.
Otto, please correct me if I’m mistaken, but I think the point you were trying to make to those who refuse to listen to it is that it’s wrong to kill someone without having a trial, that is for those who are pro-death penalty. For those of us who are anti-death penalty, it’s wrong to execute someone especially without a trial. Apparently your query as to what scale they’re using to gauge the “okayness” of their glee went way over their heads.
Monty, are you insinuating this was an execution? That the military knew who they were and rather than trying to get a peaceful resignation they just went ahead and executed these two? If that is your point, I fear you may want to reread the news about this event and reconsider your point.