A thread for Gulftiger to discuss politics

I’m old enough to remember when Republicans hated Russia, and warned everyone that Russians couldn’t be trusted. Now Republicans (one in particular) are willing to sell our security to them.

Republicans used to say (quite recently), ‘We fight them over there so that we don’t have to fight them here.’ Now they say, ‘Let’s not fight them at all. That leopard’s never going to eat my face!’

They don’t understand the concept of ‘return on investment’. Yes, supporting an ally is expensive for us. They don’t understand how much more expensive it will be if they don’t make the investment.

Actually, Republicans’ blindness to ROI reminds me of this quote from Discworld:

The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. … A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. … But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that’d still be keeping his feet dry in ten years’ time, while a poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet .

Tangential to this issue, and maybe more generally for the likes of GulfTiger

Ukraine/Russia.

Anybody that remembers Trump’s first Impeachment remembers that it was based on Trump’s “perfect call” with Zelenskyy.

In that call, Trump threatened to withhold some $300M of US taxpayer dollars – already allocated to Ukraine to help them fend off Russian aggression – unless Ukraine, working through Rudy Giuliani, fabricated dirt on Joe Biden, then Trump’s likely 2020 opponent – dirt that still seems to elude legitimate discovery four years later, it should be said.

There could have been no greater gift to Putin than denying Ukraine previously allocated US aid dollars at such a perilous time, and the greatest part for Trump was – per usual – he was blackmailing using somebody else’s money: the American taxpayers’.

Similarly, in the current election cycle, Trump has repeatedly said that he’d essentially stop the war in Ukraine, the war in Gaza, and secure the release of Americans held in Russia (eg, Evan Gershkovich) with a phone call, immediately upon being re-elected (ie, as President-elect, not even waiting to take the office).

As Trump held Ukraine hostage on that phone call, he daily reminds us now that he still holds the Ukrainian people hostage, just as he holds the Middle East hostage, and just as he holds any Americans being held by the Russians hostage.

The clear implication is that he could make that phone call at any time he wanted (unless – of course – there’s just not much he can do for Putin as TFG (ie, Vlad’s not taking his calls)).

He simply chooses not to.

And if any of that matters to you At. All., then you know what you have to do: just hand the title to the long-running but perpetually fragile American Democratic Experiment directly over to him.

Of course you do. Yet another example of your lack of intelligence. All you do on this board is spew idiotic right-wing nonsense.

Just for the record, if someone admits to being a Troll, believe them.

If they claim they don’t know things that have been front page news for months on both ends of the political spectrum, the odds point to deliberate lies and or trolling again.

If a person says “the still have doubts” about 2020 and that the process isn’t transparent enough, despite their own supported party having spent countless millions of taxpayer money going through the records with an axe to grind, AND the top cop of the nation who was part of the administration saying there’s nothing there, then again, deliberate lies, trolling, or such an idiot to be indistinguishable.

So, I know this has never worked in the history of the boards, but DNFTT.

Not so.
Everyone not a democrat is an idiot?
I do not spew nor believe nonsense.
Again, viewpoints other than yours are not nonsense.
I have not voted Republican for decades.
I should just agree with everything you say.
Forgive me for giving my opinion.

Pants on fire!

No, but Gutfeld certainly is.

Also, It’s a fucking D not a d. Is it really that hard to remember how to spell one of the two major political parties you seem to want to have opinions on?

Saying that one “admires” Gutfeld (or any of the other RW news ‘entertainers’, or Tucker Carlson, or Alex Jones, or Ann Coulter, or any others of their ilk) is akin to saying that one “admired” Rush Limbaugh.

They’re con artists. They’re demagogues. They’re media whores and propagandists. They don’t feed their audience facts, and help them by providing objective context and analysis.

They shill – unabashedly – for the GOP. This is why – to date – the payments for their perfidy tally fairly close to a billion dollars. And they aren’t out of the legal woods yet.

These types are not to be ‘admired.’

Or believed.
Or trusted.
Or worshipped.
Or idolized.
Or paid attention to.

And – as usual – they really have no equivalents on the left side of the aisle.

I cannot prove it, but I have voted Libertarian since 2008.
Apologies to Gulftiger for hijacking their pit thread.
Carry on.

Until 2016, that was worse than voting Republican. Republicans were for deregulation. lower taxes, and cutting social services. Libertarians were for essentially no government and no taxes and no social services. All about property rights, nothing about society.

In your current situation, in a libertarian regime you’d be homeless and starve to death. Boggles the mind why you’d vote for them. But since 2016, MAGAts have firmly established themselves in the lunatic asylum and have become as dangerous to social democracy as the original libertarian lunatics.

Oh wow. I get back from work and have already gotten homework assignments.

That’s OK. Amongst being called a POS, etc., some have extended kindness despite my transgression and I am a believer in reciprocity so I will work through the questions.

I tell you what though, I don’t have unlimited time but I will look at every one of these and return with my thoughts. I may have to do this over a couple of days so please be patient.

Libertarians do want social services. For themselves. They also want everything for free. Roads? Hell, yeah, they want to have them. They just don’t want to pay for them. Fire and Police Departments? Hell, yeah! But don’t make us pay for them!

You’re totally discounting American SuntanLotion Exceptionalism!

SuntanLotion is one capital gains tax rate reduction from being a billionaire.

And the Death Tax is the only reason SuntanLotion won’t be able to leave those billions to their children!

So, we can rule out a broken Shift Key then…

To be fair, the ones I know do expect to pay for them. A payment easily within their considerable means, of course; which I suspect they expect to be less than their current taxes.

They just don’t expect anybody who can’t afford to pay for them to be able to get any use of them.

To be even more fair, they seem to be under the delusion that everybody over about 12 could afford to pay for them if they weren’t wasting their money on trips to gamble in Atlantic City. (Reference from an actual conversation, though I don’t have it recorded.)

Being a libertarian would probably be great if you’re rich.

Of course, if you were in a libertarian society, I’m not sure if those people would have had the opportunity to get rich in the first place, since that society would look so much more different, and a heck of a lot more chaotic. Ironically, capitalism would fare a lot worse without some kind of regulation to keep it from destroying itself.

I’m not sure they think of that. I think that they think they’d succeed in that sort of society also, because they think that aside from extreme cases of disability all you really need is determination and willingness to work. But mostly, I think they’re utterly naive about how humans work, and therefore don’t expect the chaos.

See our extensive debate on various flavors of Libertarian belief, hyper-capitalism, and the like in a prior Pit thread.