Agreed. And I figure that if the forum doesn’t have enough traffic, it will probably fade into the ether as not usual and that’ll be the end of that. I guess I just don’t see this as an issue either way.
The new forum, the way it appeared without any input from the people who are supposed to support it by participating in it, and the arrogance from the Powers That Be (read, Tuba, as usual) are all leaving a bad taste in my mouth, and I can’t say exactly why. I thought we were having a community here. I thought I was helping to build one with my participation. I know we are all here by the grace of the people who run the server etc., but having my nose rubbed in it doesn’t feel so great. I’m feeling kind of stupid now. It’s Ed’s Place? I kinda thought it was all of our place. I guess I won’t make that mistake again.
Bwah? It’s got nothing to do with respect. Questioning an administrator’s actions is somehow showing disrespect? Really? That’s an accusation that the Snarkpit, and others, have been making for a long time–that the SDMB admins are intolerant of questioning their actions, official open invitations to discuss said actions in the Pit notwithstanding. Am I now seeing this confirmed?
Or, what, we’re supposed to show our eternal gratitude to him for setting up the SDMB by giving him a free pass on a mind-bogglingly overt piece of shameless self-promotion? Nuh-uh, not where I live.
If it was a separate forum to promote Cecil’s books, that would be different. This website is built around Cecil’s contributions and books, not around a hobbyist book that an administrator happened to write.
Count me completely astounded, very disappointed, but somehow–rather cynically–not surprised, :rolleyes: that someone associated with an Internet message board found a way to shove his self-promotion down the throats of the subscribers.
Oh, the joys of pulling strings, “it’s not what you know, it’s who you know”. :rolleyes: Uh huh. It’s the way of the world, I guess I’m just surprised that it took this long for it to kick in at the Straight Dope Message Board. I guess I’m an idealist, I guess I assumed that somehow we’d be immune from all that tackiness. Guess not. 
I too will be re-evaluating whether I’m willing to pony up any more money in order to promote somebody’s book.
…unless you decided to open the new “Hey, everybody, go buy my book!” forum to all the SDMB writers, like Eve, in order to them to promote their books, too. Which would be fair, and which would gibe better with what I know–or maybe that should be “what I thought I knew” – about the SDMB.
Um, the problem is that Ed has been editing the column, not writing it. The polite fiction, ever since Day One, is that Cecil and Ed are two different people. Hello? They can’t be two different people in one respect, and then, as soon as one of them decides to write a hobbyist book, suddenly they’re the same person. Doesn’t work like that.
Bwah? Not only is it not a Straight Dope book, it’s not even remotely related to the Straight Dope. It’s a book about fixing up old houses–how the hell is that related to the Straight Dope column? He might as well have written a book on knitting, or flyfishing. They’re both hobbies, too.
And the thoroughness and sense of humor absolutely DO NOT SIGNIFY. He could have written On Food and Cooking, The Science and Lore of the Kitchen, and we would not expect to see him given his own forum here to push it, because it has nothing to do with the Straight Dope column.
It’s astounding because (A) he doesn’t write the column, he only edits it, and (B) it’s an entire fucking forum. ME, ME, ME, it’s all about ME. I mean, strewth, Marley. I expect that from Stephen Colbert or Martha Stewart; I don’t expect it from Ed Zotti.
Decency? What the hell does decency have to do with it? There you go, you and Tuba, talking about “decency” and “respect”. Decency and respect have nothing to do with it. How about some respect and decency for us, not having to have a Higher Up’s pet project jammed down our throats? He gets his very own forum to play in, well, la-dee-dah. :rolleyes:
He’s imposing his needs to flog his book on people who deserve better. It’s like any other Third World tinpot dictator who’s written a book, then demands that someone publish it. He’s got the big stick, nothing anybody else can do about it. That’s what the problem is, Marley. That’s what I’m sitting here disrespecting as indecently as possible. It isn’t FAIR, and if nothing else, I expect fairness from the administration of the Straight Dope Message Board.
Because if he wants to promote his book, he can get a fucking website and a fucking blog, just like everybody else.
The big baby. :rolleyes:
Must be nice to have your own built-in soapbox. No need to futz around with domain names and the blogosphere.
Because, as pointed out, the polite fiction ever since 1999 are that Ed and Cecil are two different people–Cecil writes the columns, Ed edits them. You can’t suddenly start having them be one person just because he’s written a book and wants to flog it free of charge without having to pay for a domain name and think up a password for blogspot.
Heh. If it hadn’t been for this thread, I’d have never noticed there was a new forum at all. Color me observant.:smack::o I usually just hit MPSIMS, IMHO, the Pit, and Cafe Society, and if I’m really bored, GQ, in that order. So I’m not in the habit of browsing for any other forums that might appear.
It might be Ed’s place, but we hang out here and give it life. Without us it would be just a domain name and a web server running at 0% utilization.
It’s a blatant attempt at self promotion from someone in a position to impose it on everyone else, and that’s why it leaves a bad taste in many people’s mouths. For me, I intend to just ignore it. However, I offer 2 suggestions on how to integrate the forum into the SDMB in a less…self aggrandizing way.
#1, as has been suggested, turn it into a handyman forum, call it The Workbench. If Ed wants to take the time to participate, he could still flog his book as often as he posts.
#2, turn it into a forum for all members to tout whatever they are selling, call it The Red Light District. Then there is no question at all of Zotti taking advantage of something others don’t have the resources to do.
Analogies abound:
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Mr. Smith is the president of a big corporation. His vice-president, Mr. Jones, has written a book on backyard barbeque. Mr. Smith decrees that the monthly company newsletter shall from henceforth devote a 1/8 page ad to Mr. Jones’ book, free of charge.
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Stephen King has written a book. Some guy at Simon & Schuster has edited it. The Simon & Schuster editor has written a book on repairing and restoring Model A Fords. Stephen King allows his website to give the editor a sidebar to promote his book.
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Darat is an Administrator at the JREF Forums. Darat has written a book (hypothetically). They give Darat his very own JREF forum in order to promote his book.
I guess I don’t see it as any different than the “comment on the columns” forums. (fora?) Ed and Cecil ‘both’ work for Chicago Reader, where this message board comes from. The point of the SDMB is ultimately to make money (I know that seems to upset some people, but the fact is, this is not a charity). So, if they can draw more new people in through the book, just like they do through the columns, why wouldn’t they do that. More people in, more ad revenue. And maybe new fun stuff for the board and expansion, and more attention paid to it in general.
I say go for it. It seems like people complain that none of the higher ups paid enough attention to this message board, then complain when they do it wrong. It is all well and good to say, we all contribute to this board, but honestly. Whose name is bringing in new people? Not mine. People might read the book and come to the board that way, just like they do through the columns. Obviously they are going to let the names associated with the Straight Dope, Cecil and Ed, bring in people and revenue any way they can.
I happen to find the subject matter interesting. I could care less about the Game Room. So, I ignore that forum and am checking out this one. I find the cries of “why does he get something I don’t have” and “if everyone can’t have it, no one should” rather childish. 80% of the subjects here are not that interesting to me, so I just pick out what I do want and appreciate that others have choices too.
Another analogy:
CBS has many quality programs (heh.) The vice-president of CBS writes a book, and now the 9:00-10:00 Tuesday time slot is taken by an infomercial for that book.
Not to speak for Tuba, but I think she’s talking about the tone people took, both here and in the Barn House forum. And that’s certainly what bothered me when I brought up decency. It’s not that people are questioning the necessity for the forum; people question everything here and Ed himself acknowledged it’s a legit question. It’s the stuff more along the lines of “sneaky,” “dumbass,” “pompous,” “useless,” “freaking waste of time and space,” “vain blowhard”… the list goes on. Other than Cecil, who hasn’t been on the board in a long time, who on this board has done more for the “Fighting Ignorance” thing than Ed? It doesn’t require that you approve of anything or everything he does, but a little bit of a benefit of the doubt might be warranted to see what he’s doing.
Nobody said the book deserves a forum because Ed is Cecil.
Other than the fact that it’s written by the column’s editor, which ain’t exactly nothing. If you notice, the cover identifies Ed as the Straight Dope editor.
Does this cost you something? Take something from you, like your inalienable right not to scroll past another forum? I don’t think it does.
I don’t mean to shock you or anything, but it gets worse. I hear Ed edits the SD for money, not out of the goodness of his heart like he’s supposed to, and Creative Loafing actually gets money for distributing the Straight Dope. Money, from ads! Like crack whores working for Hitler! Somebody call Mother Theresa!
That’s what I was talking about, at least. Ed’s started a forum to reach out to a group he thinks would be particularly interested in The Barn House. I don’t see that as a hanging offense, but it didn’t take people too long to bust out the inane hyperbole.
You know he’s linked to edzotti.com in one of the Barn House threads, right? I mean, you’re not just posting about this without having visited the forum… are you?
Is this going to be a continung thing? I mean, is there going to be a new forum every time Ed craps out a book? If so, just save the hamsters (or whatever rodent we’re running currently) and make one forum called, oh, I dunno, Ed’s Masturbatory Ego-stroking Wonder Forum or something and put all the new book announcements there.
We would not have this site without Jesus, so where is the 'Baby Jebus Only ’ forum. And of course we need to have a ‘The Interent Only’ forum, and hell, throw in a ‘Yay the Alphabet’ forum as well since this site would not exist without those as well.
I would call your comment retardedly obnoxious, but that would be an insult to obnoxious retards.
Excellent suggestions both. And it strikes me as somewhat disingenuous that TPTB act surprised and indignant at any negative response.
If nothing else, IMO Ed’s vanity forum shows a definite lack of class. And that is disappointing, because I always thought something about the manner of discourse on these forums reflected a certain class that is absent from much interaction these days - and especially on the web.
And despite the realities of moderating and ownership by the Reader (now CL), there was some sense of a communal effort involved. That the boards were what we all made them. Just kinda unpleasant to have the reality that some are grossly more equal than the rest of us flung so blatantly in our faces.
On the plus side, there is very little chance that The Powers That Be here will fall into the trap of never hearing an honest opinion because people are too afraid of them. 
FWIW, Something Awful, a site with about 60 subforums (compared to 11 on the SDMB), has their DIY subforum buried as a child forum of Ask/Tell - the rough equivalent of General Questions here. The SDMB, though, has always been adverse to child forums. I don’t think they’ve ever used forum categories here, either, something else common on vBulletin-based boards. I could see forum categories like:
About This Message Board
Quest For Knowledge
Comments on Cecil’s Columns
Comments on Staff Reports
Barn House
Straight Dope Community
General Questions
Great Debates
Cafe Society
The Game Room
In My Humble Opinion
Mundane Pointless Things I Must Share
The BBQ Pit
Something Awful, and many other message boards, often create temporary forums for hot topics such as elections and current events, and “throw it against the wall, and see if it sticks” experiments. At the end of the temporary forum’s lifespan, messages are merged into one of the other subforums. The SDMB has never had temporary forums. The Barn House would seen like an ideal candidate. If it sticks, turn it into a general DIY subforum that is less “Ed’s Place”-ish and more community-oriented after the book lands in the remainder bin at Half Price Books. If not, merge the threads into IMHO.
Just one Doper’s opinion, a lone voice in the wilderness …
Excellent idea. I 100% agree and as a homeowner I would participate in that forum. It could also be the place for arts & crafts, general creative hobbies, basically anything that would be in ReadyMade Magazine or on instructables.com. That’s a niche broad enough to dedicate a forum to. Some dude’s book is not.
I just came in to point out first usage of the word pompous - Ed Zotti.
I suspect this blight of a forum will sit forlorn and increasingly uninhabited, and one day will disappear quietly from the menu and a few months later someone will ask a home DIY question and someone will reply “hey take that to the barn!” and suddenly it will be discovered the barn is no more.
I’m surprised and indignant at the negative response from some of my fellow Dopers. Frankly, I’ve lost a good deal of respect for some of the posters here. I’ve flamed administrative decisions here myself, but frankly, the whining in this and the related thread just dumbfounds me.
Ed doesn’t want a blog. He wants a message board. He was originally going to set it up on a separate site, but the site wasn’t ready on time (imagine that!) so he set it up here temporarily in an effort to drive some traffic our way. Really, what’s the big problem?
Not one of the “analogies” mentioned so far is anything that would bother me enough to comment on it. All of those sorts of things and worse happen IRL all the time. TV networks, newspapers and magazines regularly run “features” on movies and albums produced by other arms of the conglomerate company and try to pass it off as news or regular entertainment. I’ve never seen a pitting for that. I don’t think I’ve even heard any one ever complain about it, other than to mention that that may be why a certain news magazine might have Batman or R2-D2 on the cover.
Temporarily?