Sounds like someone just needs a good, hard dicking.
margin frequently annoys the shit out of me, it’s true, but you’re far more contemptible than her in this instance. Yeah, you’re joking, yeah, you’re ironic, you still suck.
[edit: comments on your suckitude specifically limited to this one post–I have no opinion otherwise]
Well I, for one, would welcome a good hard dicking and the overlords who wish to provide it.
I’m going to need the scenario a little more fleshed-out - so, what was the baby doing?
The baby was the next Hitler - WHAT NOW?
So, apparently we’re supposed to be keeping track of the idiot with the reprehensible position, just so you have someone to feel superior to? Seriously, what is with some people?
I’m not the world’s biggest margin fan by any stretch, but LHoD’s right–that’s crossing a line into being totally unacceptable.
That was me, and the whole post in question is here.
I am startled to see anything that I’ve written cited amongst quotes from TheWhoToTheWhatNow and Acid Lamp, who I had joined you, margin, in castigating. The post in question was doing just that.
I haven’t read every rape thread exhaustively, but my impression had been that I was among the posters (particularly the men) with the least tolerance for any justifications, rationalizations, or excuses for rape.
Now, possibly my choice of the word “said” there wasn’t ideal; it could have been “expressed,” or “shown,” or something. But if you are somehow defining “rape” to include circumstances in which someone was conscious, physically compliant, and not verbalizing dissent, then I think it’s actually you that are providing the after-the-fact excuse for rapists: how could they tell?
The only standard I’m aware of that could make that distinction would be something akin to the Antioch College Sexual Offense Prevention Policy of 1993, which ostensibly required that “every new level of sexual behavior” be announced in advance, with independent consent sought and received, in both directions, before it was undertaken. (“Can I kiss you?” “Yes. Can I touch your ass?” “Yes. Can I touch yours?” “Yes.”)
I happen to have been at Antioch during the period leading up to that policy’s adoption, knew some of the people involved, and knew many there afterwards. I never talked to anyone who claimed to follow it to the letter, or who believed that anyone did; the “best” defense of it was along the lines of, “well, yeah, everybody knows that taken literally it would be silly, would kill any romantic moment, but nobody’s going to invoke it unless they really have been raped.”
Is that the kind of standard you think everybody should be operating under all the time, margin? Or have I misunderstood something here?
While one could make a case that there are circumstances whereby continuous consent for the same/similar acts can be assumed once an initial “yes” is delivered (thus bypassing the Antioch College “problem” of requiring repeated reaffirmations of ongoing consent–and note, I think it’s unwise in the extreme to progress to dissimilar acts (from kissing to sexual touching, or from there to fluid exchange, or from there to penetration) without gaining new positive affirmations of consent), the fact of the matter is that physical compliance can be either “yes, keep doing that”, or “oh god, maybe if I don’t fight he won’t get mad and hurt me”, and you can’t reliably tell the difference.
This scenario is the whole reason for the “yes means yes” movement, hat tip to **margin **for making me aware of it a few threads back. “no means no” only serves to stop abuse that’s already started, in the worst case.
If you don’t have positive consent, you have to take into account that she MIGHT be only complying because of fear (justified, reasonable, or not) and “congrats”, sir, you’re a rapist and you didn’t even realize it.
Hmm, well, point taken, to some extent.
Still, the idea that verbal consent to each “progress” should be mandatory seems pretty unrealistic. Plenty of people just aren’t very verbal in this area, and IMO rightly feel more comfortably expressive in action. For example, I don’t think I’ve ever been with someone who didn’t actively, physically advance the situation herself at some point, without my express verbal consent. Which is not to say that I’m passive (though I have been told a time or two that I was slow to “make a move”).
Okay, what if instead of “physically compliant” I said “physically cooperative,” or “actively participating”? Can I (and she) be reasonably assured of not being a rapist then?
Also, it strikes me that under the “fear” theory, positive verbal consent might be coerced as much as physical compliance. “Oh god, maybe if I say yes he won’t get mad and hurt me.”
“No means no” might be incomplete, but “yes means yes” isn’t unassailable either. I think I’d rather have a silent–but smiling and active–partner, than one that merely says “yes.”
Ideally you’d have both.
In your first scenario, the balance of probabilities is that someone expressly asking for consent is doing so because they WANT to take no for an answer if the answer is no–someone who’s going to rape isn’t going to waste the words attempting to coerce a “yes, you may do this”.
Besides, as is often the case, the “yes means yes” movement is aimed at the guys who DON’T want to be rapists, but who may be inadvertently physically or otherwise coercive. Getting affirmative positive consent at every major step is a way to insulate them from committing a heinous crime they have no intention of actually committing.
I can’t tell you how much I love you for this quip, Smeghead. Literally can’t tell you - there are strict anti-stalking laws in this state…
YOu lying sack of shit.
You want to bitch and bitch and fucking bitch about something YOU YOURSELF ADMITTED WAS 10% of rapes, if that. Hey, let’s not focus on the assholes like the dude who said I needed a good dicking. He was joking? Yeah, sure. That’s his response to any uppity bitch that dares to disagre with him.
Your ‘advice’ is stupid, useless, and patronizing. And you refuse to concede that, and on top of it you think you’re one of the good guys.
You know, when the majority of guys here don’t get defensive when their stupid, patronizing ‘avoiding rape’ tips are rejected for being stupid, then you can get all pissy about a woman getting sarcastic with a total asshole.
The guys who give this shitty advice, in addition to comparing women to rolexes and other objects, don’t listen when women inform them, OVER AND OVER AND OVER that they’re dealing in fantasyland. Most rapists commit rape in houses.
But the majority of people here on the Dope don’t think that what they’re doing is victim blaming when they offer their helpful little tips. And they don’t listen when you tell them for the zillionth time that they’re blaming the victim and aren’t working from the kind of rapes that actually happen.
And that asshole up above who said I needed a good dicking sure is chastened, isn’t he? Why, I’m sure he learned his lesson.
Bottom line is, you refuse to listen, you think you’re right, and your fighting back against sexist assholes is limp, inadequate, lacks any force, any real conviction, and leaves the asshole in qustion free to be a sexist jerk to any other woman who gets uppity.
I really love how the guys in that thread dismissed educating men as 'but parents already tell their kids not to rape, STFU bitch, what else can we do?" Well, telling a woman she needs a good dicking is not part of it.
And as for you, you’re a sexist jerkwad who needs a taste of his own medicine. I can’t say what I really think of you, but you’re the reason Rape Culture exists, guys like you are why women get raped and don’t report,and guys like you dominate the culture here on the Dope. Sounds like somebody needs a good bobbiting. I’m sure you’re even more charming in real life, and the women around you who have been raped, and the one or two rapists that are part of any large group consider you their buddy, their cheerleader, their alibi.
I hope you get everything you wished on me. I hope you get treated the way you've treated me. Anybody who passes by that comment that you made without condemning it is just as bad as you
*** This*** is what the straight dope is: “Sounds like somebody needs a good hard dicking.”
Notice there’s no consent in that statement. Just grab her and dick her. This is what you are.
I’m in agreement with the fact that a lot of guys–on the Dope and elsewhere–don’t get it/take rape seriously/etc. And the “dicking” comment was dismissive, sure, but to blame “rape culture” (which I personally don’t really believe exists, but that’s neither here nor there) and actual rapes on Sierra Indigo is…a mite insane.
Where do you think rape culture comes from? From guys making jokes about it, from guys clinging to their fantasy rape scenario where the victim is a cocktease, from guys who don’t get upset at any of that. What they get upset is when somebody points out that actual rapes don’t fit their scenario.
Actual rapes? Show me where I did that. I seem to have omitted a when in the sentence “Guys like you are why when women get raped they don’t report,” but of course I’m a crazy cunt bitch who needs a good hard dicking to fix me.
Aside from the fact that LHoD (and I) both called her out on it, I’m pretty sure Sierra Indigo is a woman.
Should be: guys like you are why WHEN women get raped they don’t report."
If it’s a she, it’s even worse.