Hur hur dur. Wow, she really showed us humorless feminazis how superior and sensitive men are.
This is objectively true–an 11-yr-old was outside of their supervision.
The difference in culpability between the parents of an 18-yr-old regarding that 18-yr-old’s actions and the parents of an 11-yr-old regarding that 11-yr-old’s unsupervised whereabouts is profound.
I have already answered your question’s thrust, anyway.
As for this bullshit?
Why don’t you list any questions I haven’t answered? I believe my statements have covered every remotely relevant thing you’ve said thus far. I answered every question in post 230 with my post 231, and I’m of the opinion that your questions in post 230 cover essentially all of your contributions thus far to the thread.
You offered stupid links. Just like you did here, attempting to argue that, because some other idiot objects to having her obnoxiousness pointed out, pointing out your obnoxiousness is a fallacy. I never told you you were being unladylike; I said you were being hateful. Plenty of ladies are hateful.
Once again, you’re fabricating everything. You’re a damned idiot, and I won’t waste more time with you.
Question for margin:
**How does one educate one’s sons to not become rapists? **
The way I see it, is that most men, in fact the overwhelming majority of men, do not rape or otherwise sexually assault women. In that other minority are men who might be ‘opportunistic’ rapists, and those who we might classify as pathological criminals…those who actively seek women specifically to assault them.
Now let’s exclude the latter group, because I’m sure even their parents would be horrified to learn of their crimes. I do not believe you can universally hold parents to account for those who turn out sick and twisted (although in some instances, I suspect that really crappy parenting might nurture such deviance, but that’s a whole n’other topic).
So let’s deal with the first group: those who just don’t take NO for an answer.
Assuming that parents teach their kids basic respect for other people**, that we do unto others as we would wish them to do unto us, that we don’t steal from others or otherwise harm them because it’s just not good, what extra lessons are we not teaching our sons that then gives them permission to rape?
Should I be telling my hypothetical three year old that he shouldn’t go sticking his dick into someone who says no? When should this ‘anti-rape’ education start? Will it be included in the kindergarten curriculum? :rolleyes:
Y’see, the default position for parents is that we believe our children are going to be the best people that they can be and are going to know what’s right and what’s wrong by the time they get to (grabs age out of air) say 15 years old. And by extension, men who rape ARE GOING TO KNOW THAT THEY ARE DOING THE WRONG THING, so it’s not like educating them about it’s wrongness is going to make one iota of difference.
So, margin, what’s your solution again? :rolleyes:
**Yes, an assumption, but I do believe that even the most dysfunctional of parents do indeed want their kids to turn out OK, and try (however impotently) to inculcate basic values into their offspring. Unfortunately kids tend to mimic the behaviours of parents rather than the more formal lessons imparted. However, I do not believe that all, or even the majority of crappy families, breed rapists. If that were so, then we would be seeing a veritable epidemic of rape, and this is certainly not borne out in any current statistics that I am aware of anyway.
Perhaps the raging lunatic in the thread isn’t the best one to answer that question? Because it’s actually a decent question.
I think in school, sex ed ought to include significant information about consent and about sexual assault. Everyone, boys and girls, ought to know the circumstances under which a person can consent to sexual activity, and about the circumstances under which a person cannot, and about the consequences (legal, emotional, practical) of initiating or continuing sexual activity in the face of nonconsent.
A lot of rape is acquaintance rape, where the rapist doesn’t actually consider the act to be rape: it’s just being a forceful dude, or it’s completing a transaction that the victim agreed to when she went out on a date, or it’s a harmless joke played on an unconscious victim, or whatever. Educating potential rapists about the exact parameters of consent and about the consequences for stepping over that line won’t end rape, but it might go a ways toward decreasing its frequency.
There’s also events. I think I mentioned earlier a walk against sexual violence in my town recently, and the all-male Little League team that marched. That was awesome. Get kids used to the idea that consent is good long before it’s an issue in their lives.
But my point remains LHOD, is that most men do not rape women, even under the acquaintance-rape auspice. Which means that the message is already getting across to the vast majority who have enough empathic nous to understand that no actually means no. I fail to understand how a formal education program will enlighten those who missed that earlier developmental milestone.
IOW, whilst I applaud as much info getting to kids via the sex-ed programs, including when it is and isn’t ok to be screwing, I seriously doubt that for our casual rapist it is going to have much of an effect on its frequency. Because our casual rapist does not consider himself to be a rapist at all, as you mentioned.
You teach your kids not to rape the same way you teach your kids not to steal. You teach them early on to respect others’ bodies and personal space, you teach them not to touch others without permission, and you teach them empathy. These are lessons that can be taught both in the home and in the classroom. I worked at an elementary school that included this kind of thing in their curriculum starting at kindergarten (designed to teach kids to tell someone if they were being sexually abused) along with anger management and social skills lessons. Just make it part of growing up – you have to learn to share and not to just take someone’s stuff without permission…that goes for touching them without permission, too.
This may seem painfully obvious to you, but clearly many kids never learn these lessons, so somebody’s failing to teach them.
No argument with your stuff here (except the last bit), but I’m still of the belief that parents DO teach their kids not to steal, to respect others’ boundaries and to be empathic. Actually, I do also believe this is the default state for human beings in general. But I’m not so sure that for the kids who do not learn these things that somebody has necessarily failed to teach them. Perhaps there’s something amiss in these kids that makes them incapable of displaying normal human empathy?
Of course, that is no excuse for their behaviour, and therefore I also believe that these mores might need to be emphasised by force (via a court sentence).
But to say that lessons are not learned because someone has failed to teach is a big stretch IMHO.
YMMV etc
LOL. Just LOL.
Think about what you just said here, LHoD, once you’ve cooled down a bit and gotten over margin’s personal attacks on you a tad. Just think about what you’ve just said.
Oh you are a dumb fucking tart. Hint, rapecakes - Vagina, I has it.
To get all srsbizness for a moment - you, margin, are part of the reason that women who fight against rape are not taken seriously. Why? Because you’re a sanctimonious, invective-filled, froth-generating TWUNT of the highest order. Nobody can have a discussion with or learn anything at all from you because you bodyslam into ANY thread with your shrill bleating about rape culture and ALL MEN ARE THE PROBLEM and IT’S ALL YOUR FAULT RAPE IS HAPPENING.
It’s not a zero-sum game. People can make jokes about something as ludicrous as what was happening in this thread and still be seriously against rape and the idea of forcing anyone - male or female - into sexual acts against their will.
You fuck the cause for the rest of us. Nobody needs your “help”.
And elfkin, why quote? You’ll take all my fun away! If I was quoting, little red riding tard wouldn’t have had so much fun spitting invective-filled retardity at the man she thought I was.
Peer pressure can undo a lot of teaching. And also, I think you’re giving parents too much credit about how they teach their kids in the first place. “Don’t rape because it’s wrong to hurt someone like that” is going to carry a different kind of weight in an impressionable mind than “If you rape, you could go to jail if you get caught”. The former teaches empathy, the latter just teaches someone to be careful in how they go about it. And that’s where the rapecakes come into the picture.
I am under the impression, myself, that **margin **honestly believes the vast majority of men WOULD rape a woman if the opportunity to do so without being caught happened to present itself.
This bit is probably more true than many of us would like to admit, too.
Fascinating. You’re like an archer who not only completely misses the target each time, but somehow keeps landing arrows in the back of her own head.
Now that’s metal!
LHoD is right, though. I used to be anti-rape but now I see that if someone like margin is against it, I should be all for it.
I’m also pro-lynching, but of course this whole board has a lynching culture so I feel right at home here.
All it shows is that you haven’t seen the movie.
Let me ask you a question: when an infamously shrill male poster here has people saying that maybe if he might be less uptight if he got laid now and then rather than continue to be an asshole and drive women away with his obnoxiousness, are the posters suggesting that someone should rape him?
They are, right? All suggestions that someone might be more pleasant to be around if they weren’t sexually frustrated or suggestions that they have sex at all means that they ought to be raped. Just like in the movie where they suggest that the female character might be less of a bitch if she could get someone to date her long enough to sleep with her.
That’s right, and don’t you forget it. {Swings rope menacingly}
My confession:
While the wife prefers that I not discuss our sex life I still feel compelled to say that I’ve given out a few “good, hard dickings” in my life and I’m pretty sure that she was not just OK with it but pretty much enthusiastic about the event.
I didn’t have to apologize or make pancakes but I know that cuddling occurred afterwards.
I’m also guilty of commenting that acquaintances could use a good hard (I used the word fuck). I’ve made that comment about people of either sex. Oddly, I wasn’t thinking of forced rape but more along the lines of willingness by both the subject and a person they participated with. I base that on my own experiences where rigorous sex has transformed me from being wound too tight to a pleasant mellow state of mind.
I can understand that Margin may have assumed that rape was involved since that is the subject matter of this thread. Only Sierra Indigo knows for sure the context in which she spoke.
So, in the spirit of the discussion - I think that Margin is too emotionally wound up from trying to support her debate position. I hope that she finds a way to achieve a mellow state of mind and not let this thread get her too angry.
But I wouldn’t dare suggest any process that might get her from one state of mind to the next.
Yeah, me neither.