Okay, I see what you’re saying. I guess I can’t honestly disagree with it. I do think it’s unnecessary to bring up skin color, and it’s going to take a while before it’s no longer a touchy subject, but eh. I can’t get worked up over it.
Like I said…not racist by a strict definition, not derogatory or defamatory, but showing a distinct lack of racial and cultural sensitivity, in that without explaining what you said, it could easily have been construed that way–and even after the explanation, could still be. I sense that you probably don’t care much about being racially or culturally sensitive, but that explains why you’ve been getting so much shit about what was probably just a throwaway comment to you.
This appears to be right on the money.
From my POV, y’all are being overly racially sensitive. From yours, I am being not racially sensitive enough.
I can live with that.
Regards,
Shodan
Is that so?
Did you happen to notice that of the many responses to this thread virtually none of them even bothered discussing the merits of your OP? Virtually all were about general issues that many posters had with Shodan (later coalescing to a discussion about some remark that was completely unrelated to your OP).
Did all this take you by surprise?
I have to admit watching Shodan do a complete 180 and try to spin his way out of this is hilarious. “stylishly beige” Bwaahaahaaaa!! 
Touché, sir! :smack:
Yes, I noticed. Since it was made quite clear to me that The Powers That Be do not wish to add me to their number, I try to keep Junior Modding to a bare minimum. What other people may care to wish to do in a thread I started is not under my control, short of asking that the thread be closed – and I didn’t feel that to be appropriate here. He who lives by the snark, should beware lest he die by the snark. (Metaphorical, I hasten to add – not a wishing of death!)
The actual line is from the song, Bobby and Jackie and Jack, and Sondheim’s original lyric was I’m painting it cream for a start. It’s quite clear that it does not reference the concept of an African American as president.
It’s also pretty clear that the “beige” alteration was not invented by Shodan, although I’m curious to know where he first encountered the line with that change. Not that it’s particularly important. I don’t think it’s a smoking gun (smoking cross?) supporting a charge of racism.
It’s certain that Shodan’s post where he introduces the theme of the Obama Beige House was not a well-chosen allusion to the Sondheim work. It takes some pretty abstruse dot-connecting to get from The Blessed One is going to turn the White House beige. to We’re bringing back style to the White House / I’m painting it cream [or even beige] for a start.
But with all of Shodan’s references in that post to “shit”, both inherited shit from the then-current Bush Administration, and putative shit to be named later, it’s equally hard to think of it as “White President lives in the White House; beige President lives in the Beige House, Huuuuhhhr”. Back last October, it looked more like “When you paint the White House, and your primary painting ingredient is shit, it’s going to come out beige.”
“Huuuuhhhr”
I honestly don’t know what to make of the post quoted above by leander. But I still don’t regard (heh) it as proof that Shodan, who has for years successfully kept his racism under cover, has inadvertently given us a peek behind the veil.
Look. Shodan has displayed a myriad of flaws in his nine years here. We don’t have to insist that he’s guilty of EVERY FLAW THERE IS to call him out on the ones that he displays openly. His attitudes and behaviors MAY BE fueled by racism, but the case for this has decidedly NOT been proven. I suggest that further data be gathered before an open accusation is pursued.
Poly, I’d like to thank you for not having this closed. My post above took me three tries, at different times of the day, to get completed and submitted. If I’d found it locked against me this time, my head might have asploded.
The accusation (by leander) is not ‘every’ flaw, it’s ‘any’ flaw.
leander is casting about trying to find something that will get me to melt down. That’s why he made the accusation of racism - it is the ultimate insult, the H-bomb of liberal insults. Unfortunately for him, “racist” has been used often enough in the sense of “non-liberal who is winning an argument” for it to bother me much. That’s why he started talking about my kids. When that didn’t get much reaction, he did the next “you’re backpedalling! Hahaha!”
That is something that bothers the Usual Suspects most of all - I make fun of them when they want me to lose control and do something ban-worthy. This is much of what they are talking about when they accuse me of trolling - when they post something to irritate me, I post something back that irritates them more.
The Usual Suspects are good at dishing it out, but they are really bad at taking it. And it amuses me when they demonstrate this.
Not accusing you specifically, but using your post as a jumping off point.
Regards,
Shodan
I don’t think anyone is trying to get you banned. They’re trying to get you to engage in honest debate rather than snarky one-liners. In essence, you’d be a lot cooler if you weren’t such an asshole. Again, I doubt you care, but that’s at least where I’m coming from.
This is a common accusation, that all I do is post snarky one-liners.
Cite?
Seriously (sort of) - what leads you to think this? Do a comparison of my posts to someone else who you think does not do this.
I don’t do significantly more one-liners than most other people. And I do engage in honest debate - the idea that I don’t is a mere accusation for people who don’t like it when I don’t cave when they post whatever nonsense they saw on Democratic Underground or the Huffington blog or whatever.
For the Usual Suspects, and some others as well, “honest debate” means nothing more or less than “agree with the liberal POV”. If you dissent, and stick to your guns, the accusations of trolling are not far behind.
It wouldn’t make that much difference.
Witness Sam Stone. Not an asshole, but conservative. Same accusation, that he is a dishonest debater.
Witness Bricker. He announces that he intends to vote for Obama. All is sweetness and light. He announces that he might change his mind. Instantly, the tone switches back to baiting and accusations of trolling and dishonesty.
I will certainly grant that both of these are less snarky than I. But they get nearly as much shit, given that I spend more time in the Pit than they do.
“Being an asshole” in this context just means giving back as much as I get.
Regards,
Shodan
The final words are critical here. That’s where you’re coming from.
There’s a fundamental problem that any member of the intellectual minority faces, in that he faces on his own a broad range of opponents, each of whom has a different perspective and tactics. An approach that works when dealing with one group wouldn’t work for the others.
In the case of this particular MB, dominated by liberals, there are some liberals who want honest debate rather than snarky one liners, but there are others who themselves specialize in snarky one liners. It’s easy for a liberal serious debater to call for fewer snarky one liners, because they themselves aren’t subjected to a constant barrage of them. So they can afford to take the high road and make the substantive points (while benefiting incidentally from the snarkier liberals giving the old smackdown to their common opponent) while the conservative faces the choice of passively looking pathetic or aggressively looking like a jerk.
[The same would obviously apply in reverse on a conservative MB.]
That doesn’t address my ultimate question. Again:
Did all this take you by surprise?
The rest of the “beige” post is a good cite to begin with, wherein you claim:
So basically you admit that you are going to make fun of things you find amusing, and it’s going to get worse. Hence the snarky one-liners comment. Is EVERYTHING you post a snarky one-liner? No, and that’s what is so frustrating about you. You have the ability to engage in honest debate, and most of the time you choose not to, for shits and giggles. It’s damn near Rand Rover-esque trolling.
This is quite amusing. I’m not trying to get you to melt down. Pretty much 95% of the people here already know you’re a complete joke. Now they can decide for themselves whether you’re a racist or not.
You have to admit your “stylishy beige” was a pretty sad attempt at a backpedal. Do you want me to quote your post again?
ETA: Oh, and the “usual suspects” thing - it’s completely and utterly worn out. Every time you use it you look like a fool.
This is what I mean. No, it is not true that most of the time, I don’t engage in honest debate and do snarky one-liners instead. That is simply not the case.
See Fotheringay-Phipps’ post for a good explanation. There’s one of me, and dozens of you. Some of you want honest debate, and some want to throw snark around. If I respond to all of you, then obviously I am going to be posting more snarky one-liners than any one of you.
Besides, sometimes I just say “fuck it” and run out of patience. I can put forth some effort and put together a really good post, with some cogent points and cites and all the rest of it.
It doesn’t get any different a response than a throw away line.
Do you really believe that fucking troll leander is going to respond to anything I write in a serious way? Not likely.
And this makes me different from other Dopers - how, exactly?
I mock politicians with whom I disagree. Gee, that never happens with anyone else. :rolleyes: The only difference is - the only difference is - that I mock politicians that 85% of the Dope supports.
It is purely, solely, and entirely a question of whose ox is being gored.
Regards,
Shodan
Not, guess I am in the 5%
For the record, when I made that comment about your kids turning your house yellow I really meant because they are going to bring joy and sunshine to your home.
Really, that’s what I meant. No, really. You believe me, right? 
I’m not suggesting that 95% of dopers think Shodan is a racist. I’m saying 95% of dopers think he’s a fucking joke.
I disagree with Sam Stone, Bricker, et al, but at least they are intelligent and able to argue their points. Shodan just tosses out stupid “zingers” that he’s been spoon-fed by Glenn Beck and other idiotic right wingers.
It’s hilarious that he accuses me of being a troll when he’s actually been warned a few times for trolling himself.