A close family member tried AA and hated it. They couldn’t take the spiritual nature of the program.
Then they found Rational Recovery (www.rational.org) and that one worked much much better.
I would suggest if AA isn’t working for you, try RR.
Until I was 14, my father drank alcoholically, and tried many, many cures. Finally, when I was 14, he found AA, and that’s what worked for him (I agree that it won’t work for everyone). When he moved to Florida some 15 years later, he was thrilled that there was an AA clubhouse in his area. An amusing related story: My father never drove, he rode his bike. On his first outing to the AA clubhouse in Florida, he rode his bike in the middle of an afternoon thunder storm to get there. Arrived looking bedraggled, soaked to the gills, and generally BAD. One member present leaned over and said to a friend, “If ever there was a dunk that needed help, there he is!” Of course, after five minutes of conversation with my Dad, the guy who said that realized that he was speaking to someone with years of sobriety and a solid program. When my Dad died two weeks ago, my sister went to Florida to settle his estate. One of the things she brought back with her was all of his sobriety chips. He always carried his 24 hour chip and his latest chip with him, so we buried them with him, but passed out the rest as little “souvenirs”. My 12-year-old daughter came to me, showing me hers, and said, “Look, Mom! I got one of his poker chips!”. So, I told her the story, too.
Don’t forget, though, that meetings are made of people. I’ve been to meetings that were wonderful; the members genuinely cared about me, and were willing to listen and go outside the literature for a response. My religion, or lack thereof, was respected and no one tried to proselytize.
I’ve been to meetings that were, quite frankly, hell on earth. One person after another sharing about how evil their lives were, and how their counselors or spouses wouldn’t get off their backs about this or that, and how the court was just out to get them. I spent 20 minutes at a meeting one night listening to this man who was bewildered at the prospect of being an alcoholic; after all, he was a good Christian, and good Christians couldn’t possibly be alcoholics. I’ve even had people tell me that I wouldn’t stay sober unless I accepted Jesus Christ. Well, ten years later, I’m still sober, and I’m a lot farther from accepting Jesus Christ than I was when I was a newbie.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that it is groupthink, but some groups think better than others.
Robin
Thanks for the responses, all! I’ll reply in-depth a little later.
I would like to see some evidence to support that statement. While I do not doubt that AA has helped a great many people, I have been under the impression that no statistics are kept on a program-wide basis, and there has been no formal study comparing AA to other methods of treatment.
Okay, here’s the deal. When I was 23, my therapist informed me that I was an alcoholic, and ordered me to attend AA meetings. So I went once a week for six weeks (yes, I know that’s not how you’re supposed to do it).
I was not especially conducive; in fact, I told them up front that I’d been ordered to attend, and introduced myself as “Hi, I’m Rilch and my therapist says I’m an alcoholic”. The way I saw it, I hadn’t bottomed out, and it wasn’t my decision to start this, so I wasn’t ready to claim alcoholism.
But the rest of the group was okay with that! (Apparently, I found one of the good groups.) That’s what I liked about it: for once, I was around people who had seen everything, and didn’t judge. And who didn’t have a bragging tone when talking about binges or hangovers (which was an attitude many of my peers had that was really starting to aggravate me). Unlike the therapist, they understood that it was, in fact, up to me.
Another thing I liked was the sense of community. I didn’t get so deep into the bottle by myself, after all; all my friends were drinkers too, so it was comforting to know that sobriety != isolation. Something that hasn’t been mentioned yet in this thread is the policy whereby you can call another member at any time, if you feel you need support. You can be completely open with other members. And no one recognizes an alcoholic’s bullshit like another alcoholic.
I left the program, and the therapist, after that six weeks, but overall, it was a good experience. I still don’t think I was an alcoholic, but I was able to see the pattern I was falling into, and that was a big help. I did go back to drinking, but never like I’d been beforehand. Now, of course, I can’t drink at all, because of my medication. I scientifically proved this last Fourth of July, but that was enough to turn me off alcohol forever, no AA necessary. As I said in another thread, “I’ve done my drinking.”
I think butrscotch said it best:
And like MsRobyn and Quadgop, I don’t think AA membership under duress is likely to be successful. I’m not familiar with Rational Recovery, but I think (just MHO) that Moderation Management is a relapse waiting to happen. If you need to quit, you should just quit, no bones about it, instead of keeping alcohol in the equation. (Sorry, Dinsdale and Tomcat; I hope you continue to prove me wrong.)
I’m glad to see so many people coming down in favor of AA, because it does seem like the program most likely to work, if you want it to.
Exactly! My take on AA is that it will give you the tools you need, if you want to get sober – and if you don’t want to get sober, there ain’t a thing in the world that will make you.
I’ve a tendency to believe that Moderation Management wouldn’t work for a true alcoholic (before finding AA, my father had actually joined a program that told him he’d be fine if he could “just limit his intake to two drinks a day”.), but could work very well for a “problem drinker”. The difference, as explained to me by various AA members is that problem drinkers may drink too frequently, but don’t have the actual disease of alcoholism. A good analogy is this If you eat bunches of sugar, and are diabetic, you’d better give up the sugar, but if you eat bunches of sugar and just need to lose 20 pounds, then cutting back (Moderation) may well be effective.
friedo, I read about ten years ago (in Newsweek, I think) that 60-65% of the people who tried to get sober through AA stayed sober for a year or longer. Of course AA was made for that loosely worded stat: there are no fees or barriers to leaving and coming back; there’s a support system for the long term which also provides a purpose for staying sober and people can keep trying one day at a time until they (probably) reach a year without drinking.
I don’t know where Newsweek (or whoever) got the stat though I’m sure that it wasn’t from AA.
Let’s see.
A Worldwide program that doesn’t charge you anything to be a member
Sober people you can call 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for help or to get a ride to a meeting or a million other things to help you.
NO RELIGIOUS REQUIREMENTS AT ALL. (read that over and over)
People who are 3 days off skid row sitting next to successful wealthy famous sober alcoholics sitting next to middle class sober alcoholics at meetings.
A few million people who have stayed sober for years due to this organization.
And the only requirement for membership in this organization is a desire to stop drinking. (And even this requirement is waived, since many people are there ordered by the courts or their SO)
I’d have to say it is a pretty good thing.
ps. AS stated before, some meetings are better than others. As in society there are assholes everywhere. And there are many sober assholes in AA. But thank Higher Power they are sober.
And AA is not perfect. Many members see therapists for depression and other fun things.
I have family members who are in AA, and I’ve gone myself in the past. Most of the people I met there seemed very self-righteous, controlling, and manipulative. Of course, I was like that myself, as my mental outlook and toxified blood had me being a real unpleasant mess. I stopped going to the meetings, and eventually got away from the drugs, though I now have my struggles with alcohol.
It seems to really work for some folks, and good on them. Under the influence of substance abuse, I had a lot of self-loathing, and it was just too much like seeing an army of what I loathed.
That’s a lie. No bones about it, it is a bald-faced, in your face lie.
Read the Big Book (aka “Alcoholics Anonymous”) “over and over” and tell me with a straight face that there is no religious component to getting and staying sober according to AA. It’s a religious organisation, plain and simple. All the sophistry in the world cannot deny this.
For those interested in attaining sobriety without the religious nonsense, try Rational Recovery or SMART (self management and recovery training) Recovery.
AA is a blend of “Old-Time Religion” with pseudoscience. Yes, it has helped people who buy into it. Those who don’t, and seriously need to quit drinking, are in for a very needlessly painful ride.
Yes, there are meetings geared for atheists. However, they don’t chuck the Big Book, which is chock full o’thinley-veiled proselytisation (and in a very condescending manner to agnostics, see the chapter “To the Agnostic”, and the rest of us heathens).
Frankly, rather than searching for the diamonds in the waste that is AA, I strongly urge those who need a good program to seek an alternative, unless they have no objection to (or a much higher tolerance than I do) for sorting through religious crap to get to a few simple facts.
LOL, reading something over and over again doesn’t make it true! There’s certainly variability between AA groups, but even a quick reading of the Twelve Steps will tell you that’s false.
Well, let’s not forget to place AA’s Big Book in historical context. It was actually pretty mild for its period. And I know a lot of people would love to rewrite it, but when can you get a bunch of alcoholics to agree on ANYTHING?
Ultimately, though, whatever works for you to get you sober if you need to get sober is great. Church, MM, Rational Recovery, SMART, AA, psychotherapy, counseling – if it works for you, great. AA has no opinion on any other organization, however, so for the folks here who are anti-AA, you probably won’t find any pro-AAers rising to the bait.
As far as taking the Big Book in historical context; well, that’s pretty funny. It has a rather, oh, Calvinistic approach to matters moral. That crap’s been alive and well for a few hundred years. Just ask Jerry Falwell.
Also, for historical context, research the Oxford Group, which Bill Wilson was kicked out of for his rather extreme views. Hint: the Oxford Group (proponents of a philosophy called “Moral Rearmament,” were generally seen as nutjobs in their day.)
You and I are agreed that whatever gets someone away from alcoholism (or problem drinking, in my case) is good. That’s where I’ll say, “Good for AA!”, but only for those suited for it/who can tolerate it. Rough analogy: McDonald’s may be the biggest selling burger in the world, but I’ll go for a little burger joint called Dave’s in Lynnwood, WA everytime, because I like it!
Also, there was a study called Project MATCH done a few years ago that shows that, as far as I can tell, someone’s control/elimination of problem drinking was entirely based on the person’s willingness to stop/moderate, not which program they chose.
Sorry I didn’t provide any links, I have a very slow computer and modem. Anyhow, try Googling what I referred to.
To sum up: I’m not “anti-AA,” just anti “AA is the answer to your drug/alcohol problems!”
[hijack]
It was me who posted the Alchoholism thread. I have been agonising over this - weither to resurrect that thread, or to start a new one. I decided the best idea is to hijack this one.
I just want to say thankyou to all the people who replied since my last reply. I am shy and attention makes me uncomfortable, which Is why I didn’t want to resurect that thread or start a new one. A really appreciate the support/advice/input. And I hope others who have similar/worse problems than me can get on top of them and sort them out or at least cope with them.
As coldie said - it is touching. This is a brilliant place. Dopers - don’t be afraid to share your problems here. You will get advice/support
[/hijack]
damn, don’t hold back. I wrote REQUIREMENTS. There are NO requirements except the desire to stop drinking. You can go to meetings , never say a word, drink the coffee, listen to others and leave. PERIOD. You dont HAVE TO do anything. If this helps you, fine. I have been sober since 1974 and I am a hard core agnostic.
There is even a clause that says “our book is meant to be suggestive only.”
There are some zealots running around the meetings. Most people ignore them. I think AA was an offshoot of another program which stressed religion but I assure you, there are no REQUIREMENTS.
It sounds like someone pissed you off at a meeting.
Heh.
Actually several somebodies pissed me off at many meetings. They are people I refer to as “The Pod People.” They appear to have hocked their brains for the “serenity” offered by AA. They may be sober, but I find them pretty awful as people: controlling, manipulative, disingenuous assholes. I have a very low tolerance for this.
There’s also the little fact that I was not an alcoholic, but a problem drinker, and no matter what the dire predictions of the Pod People, I haven’t progressed in any way, shape, or form into deeper drinking/drug use. In fact, my drinking/pot smoking is pretty minimal, and has been for the last 10 years. Getting treatment for depression has improved my life way more than AA (or any other recovery program I tried). Part of the treatment for depression for me is setting boundaries. A lot of absolutist either/or stuff gets tossed around in AA meetings. Are you going to suggest to a (quite often desperate) newly recovering person that they need to sort out the diamonds from the waste? Not everyone is so well equipped, especially when they are vulnerable enough to seek help for what seems to them an intransigent problem.
I think AA has done a lot of good, yes, but it is sorely lacking if you are not willing to swallow the party line or are unable to sort the crap from the facts.
That’s right, there are no requirements, just heavy exhortations to follow the 12 Steps. Repeatedly.
IMO, there isn’t anybody on this earth who couldn’t become a better and more well-adjusted person by working the steps, alcoholic or not.
Yes. I daresay that a lot of the people who don’t make it are the ones who forget that there are eleven other steps after the first one.
P.T., I’m sorry you got god jammed down your throat, but as others have said, there are groups that aren’t dominated by Pod People.