But is what works the specifics of the program, or is it just the affinity of the group?
Robin
[sup]You and me both.[/sup]
My experience of AA probably is atypical: inside the locked ward of a combo psych-ward / drug detox / alcohol detox program.
I continued to have family members & others being worried about me and my mental state; like a damn fool I let them talk me into trying this place out, one of the selling points being “It won’t be like that snake-pit dungeon you were in, they won’t try to drug you up, in fact they’re against drugs”. I’ll say. Everyone was automatically enrolled in the in-house incarnation of Narcotics Anonymous, and likewise in their own chapter of AA. By God and by Higher Power, if you were in there you needed to be in there, why else would you be in there? And brother, we, too, used to be in denial but you’re a drug addict and an alcoholic or you wouldn’t be in here."
Behavior-mod tank. Iron hand, velvet glove, reward-&-punishment behavior mod, orchestrated control of group acceptance & approval (or ostracization and resentful disapproval), friendly shrinkfolks in street clothes (but they had the keys and got to leave at the end of shift).
I guess my main point is that Society and The Courts say that there is a higher success rate with AA; some even go as far as to say that all the mumbo-jumbo with regard to the steps and traditions in necessary in order to achieve “true sobriety.” It simply isn’t true.
Well you are lucky if it is both. Newcomers should try different meetings to find the right one for themselves. I know people who hate any mention of God, so they don’t go to the meetings where there is a lot of God talk. Step meetings are wonderful for people who need them. It took me a long while to find the meetings I adored and the right people where I fit in. But in th rooms of AA, everyone understands oneanother because we are all alcoholics. It’s tough for outsiders to are “normies” to get it.
Same with “normies” with respect to religion…which is where all this started.
For many it simply is true. It’s not an arguable point for the many thousands who believe this. The best part about it is you don’t have to believe it…unless you choose to.
I guess that’s my other point. Just because you attribute it to a higher power doesn’t mean a higher power exists, let alone removes this “defect” from your person. It does no harm for those who believe it, as long as it isn’t pushed on those who don’t. But it IS pushed onto people who don’t believe. If you want to believe you’ve turned it over, go ahead. But I feel sad that you do not take credit for your accomplishment. I wish you continued success.
Of course I take credit for my own accomplishments…especially when it comes to choosing not to drink. I’m not a religious person, quite agnostic as a matter of fact…
Something inside me thinks we are dancing around the same point.
AA does not accept any funding except from its own ‘members’ i.e. people who believe they have a problem with alcohol. However there are no dues or fees for AA membership. Contributions are voluntary and rarely if ever exceed $1 per person in attendance at a meeting. Usually less.
It’s in no way a religion, has no sacred texts and there’s precious little recitation other than reading some portion of the 12 steps. Each group decides the format of the meeting. Some read them some don’t. Both are equally effective in their only objective.
Yes, humility is a concept that’s important to recovery from active alcoholism. Yes, in relation to an alcoholic, alcohol is more powerful than the individual suffering from alcoholism. It’s not an easy concept to grasp and it seemed ridiculous to me for many years. However after you hurt long enough if you’re lucky you don’t care to quibble over abstract concepts.
We use the word God today mainly for the sake of convenience. I do not even consider my self a Christian today however I was raised as such. Where I live meetings usually close with the Lords Prayer it doesn’t bother me in the least. It’s more the act than the words that are important. We all know there’s no way to quantify the efficacy of prayer despite recent attempts to do so.
AA welcomes agnostics and atheists and any creed. If you’re suffering from alcoholism its the very best thing you can do for yourself. AA is similar to a internet board in a way. It’s a random group of people most of whom you would otherwise never know all drawn together for one purpose. I’ve met so many wonderful people there I have no regrets whatsoever. It’ll be twenty years of sobriety for me in March.
Well, I guess we are, but it makes me wonder why you go to meetings and what effect you think they have on your sobriety that you can’t get without them.
I love the meetings I attend. Why do I go, because I can help people who are truly struggling. if the people you know quit without issue, then good on them. But many people struggle with quitting, and don’t find it as easy as you purport. I go to help others, I go to share my experience with those who need it. The essence of AA is alcoholics helping other alcoholics. If you are not an alcoholic I do not expect you to understand. It took my wife a long time in ALANON to truly understand.
We’re a better couple, and I’m a better person for it now.
Well, first…I never said it was easy. I’m simply saying that a person can achieve solid sobriety using common sense instead of a mystical god object. If you need to forge new friendships with people who don’t drink, I suppose an AA meeting is a good place to find them. But there are many other places to do that as well.
I don’t believe that a person needs to take inventory of their shortcomings or confess to anyone or anything in order to become sober and I don’t believe in AA’s purported “powerlessness” over alcohol because I’ve watched the drunkest of drunks get sober without AA. And I’ve watched the drunkest of drunks die with AA. I also believe that you could achieve sobriety without them. Now…from a social club standpoint, I see many merits. I just don’t think there’s a direct correlation between that particular group of people and sobriety. They’re all in the same boat as you, but all too often, the similarities stop there.
I also see nothing wrong with feeling that your sharing stories about drinking helps others beat the problem. However, many people feel that sitting around talking about being drunk with a lot of drunks keeps the craving at the forefront of their consciousness. I know plenty of people who left meetings and went directly to the bar! What appears to some to be a comforting bunch of like souls can (and frequently is) the kiss of death for many others.
Mystical god object aside, how is this inconsistent with AA? AA has never said the 12 steps are the only way to get sober. AA believes it is the easiest way, but has never claimed other methods won’t work for some people.
I think Kalhoun has a bad taste for AA derrived from somewhere. I just wish she didn’t harbor so many misconceptions. It’s ok though, I understand where she’s comnig from, I was there once too.
You’re right. They say for a very few people, other methods will work. They say “without fearess admission of defects, few could stay sober.” They leave room for other methods, but not much. This is just one example of misinformation. Their literature is full of them.
Well, since we are picking nits, they say “few couild stay sober”. It was you who intesified that to “very few” . There is a difference.
They also say if everyone who needed it was present meetings would be held in Giants Stadium.
Very few actually get to the rooms.
Very little.
What they don’t tell you is about the stadiums full of people who it didn’t work for, and who got sober without them.
So any treatment program that has less than 100% efficacy is peddling misinformation?
I agree, Phlosphr, there is a side to **Kalhoun’s ** antipathy towards AA that we are not hearing.