I draw the line at breathing. If one has never drawn breath one is not a living human being, and turns out, there’s some support for my position in the bible (genesis 2:7), even though that’s not why I think the line belongs there.
And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
The order is significant - Form, breath, living soul tadaa
It bothers me that you use the word “parasite” instead of “fetus”, but I suspect that’s my problem, not yours.
I believe Pro-life protestors do so mainly because it’s easier to bully the women and girls going to a clinic than it is to change the law. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
I myself try to refer to “pro-life” people as “pro-life” and “pro-choice” people as “pro-choice”. If you don’t think “pro-abortion” or “anti-choice” are pejorative phrases, you are ignorant of the fact that yes, they are.
I consider the subject of abortion to be a matter of conscience which should be dealt with primarily by the people directly involved. Strangers standing outside a clinic holding up images of carnage are doing nothing useful in my opinion. You want to offer an alternative? There are better, more effective ways to promote that agenda that do not involve intimidation, condemnation and threats of violence.
That’s perfectly fine for a personal decision. Justification is necessary when defining and deciding the laws of the land.
I think the proper response is to do what we can to offer alternatives to anyone considering abortion and try to teach a respect for life, even potential life.
My personal feelings is that those who actively oppose abortion rights should be involved in caring for unwed mothers and children, as well as contraception. I’m a little confused why there are so many unwanted pregnancies when contraception seems to be available.
I hope she does not make me write 50 lines of “I have a potty mouth and want to kill baybees”.
Three words: “abstinence only education.”
I think you’re reading too much into it. “Rare” in the sense of “the decision doesn’t have to be made, because birth control is commonplace and easy to use, and comprehensive factual sex education is the order of the day.”
I think abortion is enough of a morally grey area that I’d prefer to minimize it, even if I simultaneously think that there’s a perfectly unimpeachable legal right for women to have all the abortions they want.
Umm, you do know the case that uses the phrase “penumbras” and “emanations” ain’t Roe, right?
CMC fnord!
Hey kambuckta, we get it that you don’t approve of abortion clinic picketers, but unfortunately for you it is perfectly legal for people to protest peacefully against abortion.
Now, as to the filming – what use are they making of the film? Keeping it to defend themselves against false accusations of illegal behavior? Good! Building a facial recognition database of abortion-minded women? Bad!
Another reason to want them to be rare is that they are a medical procedure that carries with it some risk and certain discomfort. If risk and discomfort can be minimized at the cost of increased access to birth control and education, I think that’s a good thing in and of itself.
Intimidation tactics? Gray?
I am firmly pro-choice, but in fairness and honesty I have to say that a substantial number of those who demonstrate at clinics do not intend intimidation or threat. They are witnessing, and they are demonstrating. They are not assassins or bombers or even bullies. This is their right, and there is nothing wrong with it except (in my view) the content of the message itself. Public demonstration, of course, can be an important component of working to influence public opinion and the law. Feature, not a bug.
I would argue that the majority of these protests (if not the majority of protesters–it’s always an asshole subset who get in people’s faces), in my personal experience, cross the line from “peaceful” and into “harassment”–doubly so because the majority of people visiting women’s health clinics are not receiving abortion services but are assumed to be.
There’s admittedly a problem here, and one that cuts to the heart of legal restrictions on recording in public spaces without consent. That is, that videotape by itself is capable of being used for both purposes.
I don’t personally think that it should be illegal to record in a public space, granted. Hence my preferred solution above (a few large clinic escorts peacefully standing in a public space in such a way that they block the camera’s view of persons entering the clinic).
(1) For folks so concerned about making assumptions, you folks certainly make quite a few about pro-lifers. Read through the thread, I can’t be bothered to multi-quote.
(2) I’m so sorry I ever mentioned these people. Let me explain for the last time:
(a) One time while protesting outside a PP, I saw a young man and a young woman, approximately the same age.
(b) The young man was visibly urging the young woman into the clinic, holding her by the arm. They were not walking at an even pace.
(c) The young woman proceeded, apprehensively, towards the PP, visibly concerned and with an expression that I would describe as “reluctant”.
(d) In the within thread, somebody mentioned a boyfriend who didn’t want to pay child support encouraging the mother to abort.
(e) The previous scene came to mind.
(f) I made the grave error of mentioning this fact in my post.
It is very possible that she was going to PP to get a pap smear or whatever, and the man was her brother (I did not see a wedding ring), and she was apprehensive about getting the test done.
I doubt this, especially since there are plenty of free clinics in Pittsburgh, where innocent blood is not spilt, but it doesn’t matter. Both times I protested PP, our group was quite civil, and we did not directly address anybody entering or exiting the building. If engaged in conversation, we would speak, but otherwise, we would pray, hand out leaflets, and carry signs.
It is not my wont to prejudge people.
(3) It was the epitome of hypocrisy and bad faith for you folks to villify, abuse, and torment classylady the way you folks did. It was like watching a nature show on the Savannah and seeing the lions rush the injured antelope. One does have to have a thicker skin in “The Pit”, but to deliberately take advantage of one with a more sensitive nature is really sad, guys. I might go so far as to say that a callous disregard for humanity is a common element in the worldview that permits both abortion and incivility to one’s fellow man.
Was it Casey? I dunno, I lump them all together, as they’re usually cited together anyway.
I don’t think it’s gray at all. It’s nobody’s goddamned business. Are appendectomies a gray area?
If birth control is common and easy to get—whcih, for a lot of women, it’s simply not, thank to the same people who claim they’re against abortion—then say so. I’m not adopting their viewpoint. I think abortion is great. It saves womens’ lives, it minimizes the after effects of rape, it allows women to keep on living their lives.
And to whoever said, 'What are anti choicers going to do with the footage?" well, Wiki has a pretty extensive list of the way people like Scott Roeder and other anti-choicers use pictures to print fliers to call clinic workers murderers and stuff like that. Harassment and stalking. And then there’s the—what is it now? seven or eight?—murders of abortion providers? That doesn’t include death threats, bomb threats, and so on. The anti-choice movement is not composed of fluffy bunnies, no what its apologists whine.
Yeah, they’re ‘witnessing’ alright. Except they don’t stop when they’re asked to. They don’t have any business protesting somebody else’s surgery. The fact is, this is a movement that makes its raison d’etre the reduction of women to incubators. I don’t give a shit about how nicey nice some members are.
Griswold v. Connecticut. A birth control case, not an abortion case.
right. I’m more in favor of teaching kids how to have respect for themselves and for others. Teaching them choices have consequences that have to be considered, and then providing them contraceptives, if and when they decide to become sexually active.
With anti-abortion scum around, of course she was apprehensive. Like a black man walking past a KKK rally.
Oh, please. She was just trying to divert attention from the worthlessness and evil of her own beliefs. Whining about “language” while throwing out her own insults.
Now there’s an example of Freudian projection for you. Someone who wants to treat half the human race as cattle complaining about other people having a “callous disregard for humanity”.
Do you need a hug?
Hey! I thought we already established that was the third worst thing in the world! Might as well have threatened to adopt him…