Yeah, get back to me when any other medical procedure gets treated the same as this one, then we’ll talk.
And as for calling them pro-life, they’re not, I won’t, and when they actually start caring about improving lives instead of ruining and controlling those of others, then I might consider it. Until then they’re not pro life, they’re anti-choice and they can suck it if they don’t like it.
Considering it’s right down from the bus stop, you probably pissed off a lot of people on their way to work as well, by standing in their way. (Seriously, how do you manage to protest there? You’d be standing on the middle of the sidewalk?)
Of course, it never occurred to you he was taking the girl in for a pap smear, and had to deal with some idiot who was standing there being a judgmental prick.
I think the next time I’m downtown, I’m going to go into PP and grab some pamphlets.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: every time we have a thread like this, I want to run right out and have an abortion. And I’m not even pregnant.
Little Bird, that’s awesome!!!
Beniamino, you know, it’s not like someone really WANTS to go out and have an abortion, like, “Yay, I’m having an abortion today!” An unwanted pregnancy isn’t fun.
There’s a reason it’s called pro-choice. It means that each woman has a right to decide what she wants. An abortion, adoption, keeping the child. Many pro-choice people are actually anti-abortion, but they feel that each woman should make that decision for herself.
Personally, I feel that the woman is more important than a zygote/fetus. I believe abortion before viability should be legal and readily available. Could I myself have an abortion? I honestly don’t know. I do have medical issues, such as meds I’m on (for seizures) that could cause birth defects, so those would be a big factor. But whatever I would decide, I’m GLAD to have that option open to me.
Oh, and not all married people wear wedding rings. My father no longer wears his because it doesn’t fit anymore – it needs resized. Asshole. And even if they weren’t married – what business is it of your’s?
Oh, I don’t know about THAT. 
In fact, judging from this thread, I’d say just the opposite.
You forgot 4.) Handshakes.
Oh, and BTW, the PP on Liberty Ave? DOESN’T EVEN PERFORM ABORTIONS. Only referrals. :rolleyes:
right. I’m not fond of the labels of pro life and pro choice in describing the debate. I’m both. As you point out, any realistic discussion about real life policy and consequences is much more complex.
You know, in a couple weeks or so I’ll be “escorting” (I’m still not sure why the quotes were there) a teenage girl into the maw of Planned Parenthood. She may well look embarrassed and reluctant. That’s because a nice doctor is going to jack her all open with a speculum and talk to her about her health and contraceptive options. Oh, and she’s really scared of breast cancer, because her mom had it, and she wants to talk to a doctor about it. Thanks for making her more scared!
This is the same woman hating faction who do things like oppose HPV vaccine for girls; they not only hope that she’s scared, they wouldn’t mind at all if she got cancer and died.
If appendix surgery were illegal, I would hope for appendix surgery to be “safe, legal, and rare”. I mean, give me a fuckin’ break here–the fact you’re arguing with me at all means that you give the appearance of believing that it’s somehow bad or inconsistent to believe that abortion is an inferior option to birth control/education that makes abortion largely unnecessary.
This is hilarious. Read it and weep, folks. This is the level of ignorance we’re dealing with here.
And where did kambukta say it was either illegal or should be illegal? What he/she said was that it is threatening and a bad way to get one’s message across. Kind of a cheap shot to suggest that kambucta is suggesting by this that it wither is or should be illegal.
Out of interest, what do you think their purpose is for this?
One more time for the peanut gallery: adoption is an alternative to parenting, not to pregnancy. For a person who cannot physically, emotionally or financially sustain a pregnancy, adoption is not a viable or reasonable option. It does not solve their problem.
The majority of the positions held by the “pro-life” movement and their political bedfellows don’t hold together logically with a belief that abortion is murder, but they do follow logically from a punitive perspective on sexual activity which they don’t approve of (i.e. outside of a heterosexual marriage).
The easiest way is to call your local reproductive health center and ask them about their escort program. Keep in mind that even facilities that don’t provide abortions often have escort programs because their patients are harassed just the same.
And yet, when you follow someone down a street, yelling at her about killing her baby, trying to shove pamphlets in her face, using all manner of emotional manipulation techniques like speaking the “words” of her presumed unborn child saying “mommy, don’t kill me, mommy!” intimidation and threat is exactly what has occurred. Intent doesn’t matter. The “it’s not our intent” canard is played specifically to try to insulate these people from the repulsiveness and violence of the behavior in which they engage. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and their intentions aren’t that good to begin with – not their real intentions or the ones that they lie about having.
The HELL there are. There simply are not. You cannot name three, let alone plenty. I know that because I live here, and I’ve *looked *for those sources of free or even reduced cost gynecological care for women who were either opposed to abortion and therefore wouldn’t go to Planned Parenthood, couldn’t go to PP because of opposed parents or partners, or were too afraid of protesters and having to run a gauntlet of hostility and harassment to go to PP.
Multiple free clinics do not exist. The “free” clinic of Pittsburgh is not free and does not provide full service gynecological care (and no obstetric care). And the clinics that do exist that may offer reduced price gyn care services (may being a key word) have waiting lists several months long.
There is nothing civil about those signs, or forcing leaflets on people, and that’s what your group did, because that’s what every group that protests at our PP does.
Abortion is now the leading cause of death for women 18-30 in Latin America because they do not have access to legal, and therefore regulated and safe, abortion services. This is the lie of the “pro-life” label: when their twisted beliefs are made law it leads directly to the unnecessary deaths of women, and they do not give a flying fuck.
The health center office doesn’t, but the health services office, which is in the same building does. It’s the only PP location in all of southwestern PA that does.
Definition of parasite - An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.
Explain to me exactly how a human fetus (wanted or not) does not fit that description.
In the town my parents live in (in Canada), abortions are performed at the local hospital and the anti-abortionists do indeed picket in front of the hospital. They have the gory pictures and also tend to bring small children with them and put sandwich-boards on them that say things like “I’m glad my mommy loved me enough to give me the gift of life” - I find the use of kids too young to understand what’s going on (usually too young to even read the sign) as pawns in their game to be especially reprehensible. The way that hospital is laid out, they end up picketing basically directly outside the doors to the ER. I’m sure it goes over really well when they accost people who have come for random issues - especially women who come in to the ER because of preterm labour, spontaneous miscarriage, etc.
I call them “anti-abortion” because they are against abortion. If they see that as a negative label, so be it.
I don’t them the other side pro-abortion because they are not They are pro-choice.
Better labels would be pro-legal abortion and antii-legal abortion.
Here you go:
A parasite is defined as an organism of one species living in or on an organism of another species. A human embryo or fetus is an organism of one species living in the uterine cavity of an organism of the same species in a dependent relationship. A parasite is an invading organism – coming to parasitize the host from an outside source. A human embryo or fetus is formed from a fertilized egg – the egg coming from an inside source, being formed in the ovary of the mother from where it moves into the oviduct where it may be fertilized to form the zygote – the first cell of the new human being.
that’s just a few examples…no time to post more.
I’m fine with the term anti-abortion and pro-life.
I’m not as comfortable with the term pro-life in general, but that’s because it connotes something broader than abortion IMHO–my dad, for example, is pro-life: he’s anti-abortion, anti-death-penalty, and anti-war. I don’t think that’s true of the majority of people who wear the mantle of “pro-life” that I’ve met.
I don’t like the term pro-life. Jains are pro-life. Anti-abortion or anti-choice is more apt.
I’m not comfortable with pro-life except for a minority of anti-abortion folks. Many of those who claim to be “pro-life” are actually pro death penalty, and are the first to call for war. I don’t consider that to be a true pro life stance.
On the other hand, I consider myself to be truly prochoice. I used to be an escort for a women’s clinic that performed abortions, and more than once, a woman that I was escorting told me that she was being pressured into an abortion. In that case, I let the staff at the clinic know about this, and the staff or I would try to find resources and help for the woman that would allow her to keep the pregnancy. I am NOT pro abortion, I am pro choice. That is, I don’t advocate abortions for women who don’t want one. I advocate for women having a variety of choices, and one of the choices is to remain pregnant.
Er…Illegal? It’s not illegal. And the reason I’m arguing with you is because you’re accepting the framing of the anti-choicers. Abortion has no more moral weight than any other legal surgical procedure yet it’s treated incredibly differently. And strangely enough, abortion didn’t appear to much bother people before women got the vote or even earlier, when women were agitating to get the vote for themselves and for other people. Womens’ periodicals openly advertised ‘medications’ that would ‘regulate’ a woman’s ‘courses’ and solve her problems. Some of those periodicals were even Catholic. So while it’s legal it’s been under attack for forty years because it liberated women as few things have, and I don’t intend to accept one bit of the anti-choicers’ framing on that issue, because they don’t give a shit about baybeez.
They’re anti a whole lot more than abortion, if you look up the actual effect of their actions on womens’ reproductive rights. They’re against sex ed and birth control.
I disagree. Abortion has more moral weight than other surgical procedures, if for no other reason than there is no sane legal or moral way to give (potential) fathers any binding input, even though in a perfect world (perhaps one where fetuses could be instantly, painlessly, and risk-free teleported to uterine replicators) they have a moral claim to input. The issue is that a fetus occupies two distinct moral statuses–it is both a parasitic lump of tissue on a woman’s body, and a precursor to a child, and that status is entirely dependent morally on the parents’ choice. Realistically, the only parent who has legal input is the mother, because she bears wildly disproportionate risks at that point, but that’s not an ideal situation, merely the best practical solution at this stage of medical technology.
That’s fine, however, I’m not accepting their framing. I am framing it the way I do because of my beliefs regarding parental rights and the necessarily inconsistent status of an unborn fetus.
