It’s often assumed that most women are pro-choice, at least, that’s certainly what N.O.W. and other feminist orgs would have us believe. From my own experience however, I’ve found women to be much more pro-life than men, and much more in tune to the whole abortion debate. This is probably nothing new to y’all, but here’s the reason I believe that it’s irresponsible men who have the greatest interest in making sure abortion stays just like it is:
Scenario:
Man gets woman pregnant. Woman wants to keep the baby. Man says…"do whatever you want, it’s “YOUR CHOICE”. Now, whether or not there may be legal entanglements confronting Man in this case, Man is certainly off the hook as far as having to make any sort of moral or responsible commitment in the matter. He doesn’t have to own up to anything. What Man can do is apply pressure on Woman to have an abortion…“If you were smart you’de have an abortion…it’s legal after all…and it’s YOUR CHOICE” (isn’t that special)
Yes, what a wonderful thing abortion is for irresponsible man! He doesn’t have a say in the matter, and he loves it!
So responsible man says, “oh honey, lets have the baby. Abortion is wrong”. Hesitant woman thinks “okay, as long as I have someone to support me.”
3 kids later, man leaves with girlfriend half his age because his wife got fat from childbirth and is too tired for sex. He gets a good lawyer, and she is stuck raising three kids alone in a two-bedroom apartment on her pay (75% of what a man in the same position makes) and skimpy child support checks which may or may not arrive.
Happens a hell of a lot more often than irresponsible man pressuring woman to get an abortion.
(this is not to cast aspersions on all of the wonderful supportive men out there, only to point out that this does happen too often. I know, I’ve had way too many friends and acquaintances go through it)
perhaps the problem here is that you didn’t check which forum you were posting in. you seem to be saying that an irresponsible male would prefer to have the impregnated female get an abortion. That would be posted in the “Duh” forum.
Yes. vast makes complete sense because, 1. all men are irresponsible impregnating pigs, 2. all men tell their pregnant girlfriends that it’s their choice, an 3. all women listen to their boyfriends.
What I hope is that girlfriend goes to best female friend who, unlike boyfriend, is neither a cretin nor possessing a height greater than her IQ. Sad female friend makes girlfriend realize that boyfriend is a POS. And raises the child to be a better man/woman than boyfriend was.
I’m thinking this is going to go to the pit pretty soon.
Vast, if your point was that men are irresponsible pigs who don’t know what side of the bed to shit on . . . evidence to the contrary, for some of us, does exist. If your point was that abortion can be a copout, that belongs in the “In case you were stupid” forum.
Otherwise, come up with an original thought.
OT:
Some men, having been irresponsible, have “the light” (sometimes the bedroom light) hit them suddenly and start acting as mature adults.
I’m afraid I read this as even worse. It seemed that the assumption was that women would all be anti-choice if only those big bad feminists and horrible irresponsible men weren’t MAKING them have abortions.
The way I read the OP: “Men haven’t the slightest clue about abortion, and only women do, which is why women (according to the OP) are much more pro-life than men. However, since women are unable to think for themselves, it’s the men that instill the idea that women should be pro-choice.”
Oh, all this silly-type thinking is hurting my head. Time to head to the Pit, for some fun-type thinking.
The OP is making a valid point. People like to catagorize abortion as a women’s issue. The OP is positing that some of the pressure to keep abortion legal comes from men who would like the freedom to be irresponsible and not suffer the consequences. As evidence, he is pointing out that support for abortion (or for outlawing it) is not split by gender.
I must say that the “troll” OP is alot more coherent than many of the trollhunting posts that followed.
'Kay Izzy. I’ll bite. While it is true that having an abortion can be beneficial to an irresponsible man who impreganted a woman and wants no part of raising a child. True, a man may also pressure the woman and disingenuously feel that his moral slate is clean if she has one done because it’s “her choice.” And I am sure that some men out there who have faced such a situation are in favor of abortion because it “let them off the hook,” as the OP would say.
Big Deal. There are plenty of men who support abortion rights who have no interest in avoiding responsibility. I am one. I am married, would not ever want an abortion performed if I did impregnate a woman, and still I support abortion rights. The OP tries to characterize women as being far more pro-life than men, yet offers zip in the way of evidence. Yes there are gobs of pro-life women out there, and quite a fair share of men too. There are also tons of pro-choice men and women. What, exactly is the point? Abortion is presented largely as a women’s issue because it has substantially more impact on them than it does on men. That in no way means that men are not involved in the movement on either side.
I don’t agree with that, Izzy. There are lots of guys out there paying child support. How did abortion enable them to be “irresposible”? (Aren’t the women being in any way irresponsible? After all, they control most of the information and descisionmaking throughout the process.) The availability of abortion may reduce the chances somewhat that a guy will get slapped with a paternity suit, but it’s nothing he can rely on.
Yes there are men and women on both sides of the issue, and perhaps part of what influences some men to support abortion rights is the hope that it may save their bacon one day, but this is probably not significant in the way the politics is played out.
The reason I thought the OP was troll-like is two fold.
1 - It was a hit and run post. While this not definite indication of a troll, it is S.O.P. for your common garden troll.
2 - While he (or she as the case may be) may have been trying to make a point, he certainly used some extremely insensitive phrasing to do it.
Ok, I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.
I’ve always felt that men don’t have a lot to say about whether a woman gets and abortion or not. But I’ll side with Ptahlis who said:
My take on it is, I support a woman’s right to choose what she does with her body. If I had my way, abortions wouldn’t happen, but this isn’t a perfect world. I can’t say I know, but I can try to empathize with a woman who is faced with that decision; she doesn’t need any more heart-ache than she already has. That is why I would offer support for her decision and not denigrate her if her decision isn’t the one that I would make.
If the OP wasn’t a troll, I’ll offer this constructive criticism - flippancy is no way to generate intelligent debate.
Btw, I have heard that argument before and it makes sense to me. A woman has got to live with the memory of taking her child’s life afterall it was in her not in the man(duh to myself). A man can just go on his merry way paying his half of the the butcher bill I mean doctor bill and that is it for that would be life.
If my post intends to show anything it is that abortion in more cases benefits men, and more specifically irresponsible men, that it benefits women.
Quite to the contrary of abortion empowering women, it is blatantly anti-women. Traditionally infanticide has been the standard procedure in snuffing out the unprofitable females. Now we don’t even have to wait for them to be born. We have ultrasound. Just in third world countries? What’s to say it couldn’t happen here too?
My point is I can’t see how abortion is any friend to women, but to men…in more cases, yes.
vrwc
Certainly many people can be pro-abortion without being motivated by potential consequences. The issues are not directly related. But I believe alot of what motivates some people (men and women) to take this position is the (shaky) safety net that even if something goes wrong with their contraception their goose is not cooked yet. And it’s easier for men than for women to take this position because they can cop out of the actual responsibility for the decision if necessary. So for men more than for women, it’s a no lose situation. A woman who dwells on the issue is more likely to contemplate herself in the situation of actually having an abortion. This can, in some cases, force a harder look at the morality of the issue.
I agree with sqweels that “this is probably not significant in the way the politics is played out”, if by this (s)he means that no one campaigns on an “abortion rights - it will save your neck” platform. But the motivations for political and moral beliefs are a legitimate area for discussion.
I too disagree with the assertion that there are far more pro-life women than men. I think the numbers are roughly comparable, though I don’t remember my source for this. But I think the reason that there is not a great gender divide is because of reasons suggested by the OP.
I agree with the final two sentences of Ptahlis’ post. I should rephrase my words. From the rhetoric of pro-abortion leaders one would get the impression that women are far more united on this issue than is actually the case.
(As I look at the preview I see the most recent post by vastrightwingconspiracy, which I completely disagree with. Nonetheless, the OP did make a valid point).