I don’t know any details yet beyond what’s in this article, due to the events having just occurred. All the news reports are noting his anti-choice activities, but it’s not known yet what the motive for the shooting is. There was a second victim, about whom I only know that he was a local gravel pit operator, and that the shooter stole his car to get to the 2nd victim’s location. No details yet on the shooter at all. They’re still in the process of acquiring a warrant.
excerpt from weyi:
“NBC25 is told Pouillon was well-known for his pro-life activities in the city of Owosso. He often stood in very visible areas with large graphic anti-abortion signs. The interim superintendent, Susan Wooden, says he was also well known at the High School where he would stand most mornings while students walked into school. The Flint Area Right to Life says Pouillon was a quiet man who prayed often in front of schools and local organizations.”
end of excerpt
I saw a news clip of him holding one of his graphic signs, and he was saying to someone off camera “Is this bothering you?”. I thought he didn’t seem like “a quiet man” just then.
The clinic he used to frequently “pray” at is only about half a mile from my house. Right To Life maintains billboard space directly across the street from the clinic, iirc it’s the Lapeer branch. RTL organises these:
Don't forget that we have people who dedicate their time on Tuesdays and Saturdays to pray and sidewalk counsel at the "Feminine Health Care Clinic"abortion mill at 2032 S. Saginaw St. in Flint. (From Lapeer, go west on I-69 to exit 136-Saginaw St., go south on Saginaw St. about 1/2 mile.)
Countless numbers of babies have been saved and their mothers have been helped through these efforts. If you need more information, contact us." excerpted from here - http://rtl-lapeercounty.org/events.htm
So that’s all I know now, and I have to go to work, so I’ll be getting my info updates off the web like the rest of you.
“We had spoken to the gentleman before and insisted that he be off the school property with his message,” Wooden said. She said the victim had been picketing this morning off of school property before the incident."
This is the creepy part to me. I was thinking about it as I was getting ready for work. How creepy is it for a grown man to be standing outside of a school on a regular basis, regardless of his intentions. He brought this violence to the children by his presence.
Maybe we could move this to the pit, I’ve found my anger now.
This link is to an article in the Flint Journal that has lots more details, and interviews and statements from local Planned Parenthood and Right To Life representatives.
here’s an excerpt from that article:
Pouillon was arrested in 1994 for disorderly conduct, in a case where he allegedly harassed parents as they took their children to day care at First Congregational Church in Owosso.
In a 2003 Flint Journal report of the case, Pouillon said that he targeted the church because it had hosted a 25th anniversary celebration for the local Planned Parenthood office.
At the time, Pouillon said he urged parents escorting children, “Don’t take your kids to that church. They kill babies in there. They support abortion.”
The 1994 police report indicated Pouillon was screaming at pre-school children and their mothers but Pouillon said he and a church member were shouting only because they stood hundreds of feet apart.
The state Supreme Court ordered the state Court of Appeals to rule on the case, which overturned Pouillon’s conviction in 2003.
In another case, the U.S. Court of Appeals reversed a ruling that ordered the city of Owosso to reimburse Pouillon for legal costs from another 1994 incident in which Pouillon was cleared of charges of resisting a police officer. In that incident, Pouillon was jailed after failing to heed a police demand that he stop demonstrating on an outdoor landing near City Hall.
I’m still not seeing anything that says his protest activities had anything to do with the shooting. The other guy that was killed is the owner of a gravel pit and they said there has been no connection found between the men. Am I missing something? I’m not quite ready to jump on the offense-to-free-speech bandwagon (but I will if it’s shown this had something to do with his ongoing protest).
Sounds like an asshole, but that doesn’t deserve a death sentence. From what I’ve read the gravel guy has no relation to the movement. So, it doesn’t look like a case of the pro lifers getting some of their own medicine. It looks more like an asshole and some other guy were murdered in cold blood.
He’s a creepy guy with issues and has exhibited poor judgement. I wouldn’t shoot him or advocate shooting him, but I’d prefer he hadn’t been standing in front of a school he had no legitimate reason to be in front of when he was shot for whatever as yet unknown motive. I’d never heard about the protests at the school until today, but I see them at the clinic in Flint often, and their signs and their methods disgust me. I believe from what I’ve read in the news, what I’ve seen and heard on the broadcast news, and what I’ve personally seen that he was hoping to, and intending to, provoke a violent reaction to his actions and words. His killer deserves to be prosecuted and sentenced according to the law, and I’m sure he will be, but this guy is not an innocent victim. He succeeded in his mission to incite violence against himself.
cite from above linked article/interview:
“I knew him very well. He told me one time God put in his heart a passion for the little babies that have the right to be born and they were being denied that right,” said Climer, who said Pouillon often stopped at her office for coffee breaks as he drove from one location to another to demonstrate.
“**He even told me once he’d be willing to die for that belief. **That’s what I hear him saying right now.”
NY Times article in which they’re saying the man in custody knew both victims and was angry at them for separate reasons; he was angry at the protestor for picketing at the school in front of children.
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised, but if this turns out to be true (he was killed because of the protesting) I would hoped for a little more outrage and less “the creepy fucker got what was coming to him.”
Did Dr. Tiller bring violence to his church by his presence? No, it was their killers. This victim and Dr. Tiller were acting lawfully in both cases.
While I have extremely liberal views when it comes to abortion, saying things like “this guy is not an innocent victim” do not sit right with me at all. Don’t forget that many people said the exact same thing to justify the murder of Dr. Tiller not too long ago. While I am disgusted by abortion protestors and the tactics they use, the last thing I want is for “my side” to ever feel it’s OK to stoop down to their level.
Edit: or what Skammer said.
Admittedly, he could be a “won’t someone think of the children!” wingnut rather than a pro-choice wingnut. Considering he shot someone else for an unrelated reason, though, he appears to be a wingnut with many axes to grind.
And I agree, if he was a pro-choice person who decided to “take a stand” (or went crazy), I won’t ever support actions like that, no matter how creepy the picketer might have been.
I am kind of put off by the lack of outrage being shown in this thread. I mean somebody shot the dude, apparently for his political and religious beliefs. That’s not okay. I don’t care if he was begging somebody to shoot him. He didn’t ‘‘bring the violence’’ to anyone. The person who ‘‘brought the violence’’ is the person who shot him.
I don’t approve of the “brought the violence” quote, but the murderer apparently shot another guy too because… I dunno, he doesn’t like gravel or something, and that’s another awful and pointless death of a human being. It appears to be an unrelated reason, so until we find out more information on the killer, we’re all just making guesses here and it’s pretty pointless to do that. The other victim deserves attention and respect too, pretty much regardless of why he was killed.
We don’t know why he was shot. It could have been for his beliefs and I’m all ready to be outraged about that if that’s the case. But, it could be because he cut the murderer off in traffic or because the murderer wanted his car to get to the gravel guy. The facts aren’t in yet.
I’m not asking anyone to agree with me. I shared the facts as were available to me, and then expressed my feelings and thoughts about them. I think he reaped what he sowed. I don’t think graphic pictures of aborted fetuses belong on a sidewalk especially in front of a school ever for any reason.
I don’t have any information on the shooter other than he was 33 years old, so I have little to say about him. Clearly murder is wrong, and the shooter is a criminal and at least as deranged as the protester.
For non-locals and non-car enthusiasts, the Dream Cruise is a huge family event, people lined up for miles to admire old cars. What kind of a**hole brings a van with a graphic photo of a severed head to a family event? C’mon. Reasonable people? Sane people?
Sounds like a classic case of Nutjob With a Gun. Apparently he killed three people he had grudges against.
If you need a target for your outrage or feel bad about not feeling bad for this guy, let me introduce you to the anti-abortion groups riding this thing before the killer’s motives have even been brought to light. Operation Rescue is using this opportunity to publish ‘death threats’ (and just regular threats) they’ve received following Dr. Tiller’s murder – including the people’s emails.
My final thought on this is that it should be harder for mentally ill people to get guns and easier for them to get help. Some local comments are saying the shooter is schizophrenic, as yet unconfirmed by any credible source. I am sorry for and have prayed privately for all the victims.
and another thing, the difference between me and the Pro-lifers, is that I’ll never call the shooter a hero.
Can we please keep some perspective here and at least say “some” Pro-lifers? It isn’t all, I don’t think it’s even nearly most. In fact, how 'bout we stick to what we know and say, “some few”? From what I’ve seen it seems to be the same few every time.