This claim has been made in a couple of sites, none of them terribly reputable. A similar claim was made about the Columbine murders, but was debunked. Does anybody have any insights on whether this is on the level, or just opportunistic glurge about the War on Christianity?
The references to this that I’ve seen have all pointed back to the Twitter accounts of two or three people that at least claimed to have been eyewitnesses. I don’t know if or how much verification has been done yet.
I heard an eyewitness account on NPR that confirmed it. They may have been lying or mistaken, but it’s not just tweets saying this.
On the other hand, it doesn’t mean he was targeting Christians. The way I heard it phrased was something like “Are you Christian? Good, you’re going to meet your God in a few seconds.” So he might have chosen that as his catch phrase, like “Do you feel lucky, punk?” only much worse.
I heard on the radio this morning (sorry, no better cite) that material found in his apartment suggested problems with organized religion in general rather than Christianity in particular. Based on that — for what it’s worth — it’s certainly plausible that anybody self-identifying as Jewish would get a response like “Good, you’re going to meet Moses and Abraham.”
The Beeb reports it on the basis of survivors accounts, one recalled by the father of one of the survivors and one directly;
*Earlier, Stacy Boylan, whose daughter survived the shooting, told US television network CNN that his daughter described to him how the gunman asked his victims to state their religion before shooting them.
“‘Are you a Christian?’ he would ask them, ‘and if you are a Christian stand up,’” the father recalled.
Mr Boylan said the gunman told the victims: “because you’re a Christian you’re going to see God in just about one second”.
Another student who survived the shooting, Kortney Moore, gave a similar account to a local newspaper, The News-Review.*
It’s funny how “problems with organized religion” nearly always means anti-Christian. I can’t say that I’ve ever heard this phrase used to describe someone who displays a hatred of Jews or Muslims or anything else. But when someone is anti-Christian, it becomes a problem with religion in general :dubious:
Again - not claiming this is true - but what I’ve seen claimed is that if someone said they were Christian he shot them in the head, while others were shot in the legs or elsewhere.
I don’t know anything about the ethnic breakdown of this college, but given the overwhelming number of people in America that self-identify as Christian (even if they haven’t been inside a church in decades or could name a single book of the Bible) doesn’t it seem probable that most of the people he shot could be described as Christian. Are there any reports of what he said to survivors that didn’t say they were Christian, or did he not encounter any?
Since we can’t cover all those other situations, it probably makes sense to stick to what we know about this particular situation. The “problem with organized religion” appears to come from his blog posts. He self describes, very strongly, as “spiritual” but “not religious”. I’n guessing that in this small Oregon town, if you’re religious then there’s a very high probability that you’re Christian.
But he apparently didn’t ask people if they were religious, he asked if they were Christian. Plenty of people who identify themselves as “spiritual but not religious” have a particular hatred of Christianity, well beyond any feelings they might display about any other organized religion. As it is, that label doesn’t even tell us if this guy was an atheist, or if he followed a new-age belief system, or what.
Sounds like a good thread for GD. In this forum, I’m not really sure what point you’re trying to make.
Oregon gunman singled out Christians during rampage"
This claim has been made in a couple of sites, none of them terribly reputable
The reports that I read from the UK mainstream media was that the gunman asked the victims if they were Christian.
If Christian, gunman aimed for the head. If an answer other than “Christian,” gunman aimed for the body.
Not familiar with American reports, so don’t know if CNN mentioned this.
And don’t know if these reports are verified.
according to multiple academic studies, people can have wildly different memories of an event. (not implying that anyone made up these reports, obviously)
Ah, resentment of christians for claiming victimhood even when they are victims…
Only here.
Killers go after Blacks and Jews, Muslims and Latinos, why not Christians too?
For it to be otherwise would unfairly discriminate against non-Christians.
Where do you live? What is the dominant organised religion there? Have you tested your belief by reference to people who don’t like organised religion who live in places where Christianity isn’t the dominant organised religion? I suspect you are a man standing in a freezer who concludes the whole world is cold.
For what it’s worth, I live about an hour from Roseburg, and of course this event dominated our local news. One of the stories replayed quite a bit was an interview with the father mentioned above, who was told directly from his daughter (being wheeled into spinal surgery at the time) about what had happened.
Personally, I don’t look too closely at what someone like that said or claimed about their reasoning. Anyone doing something like that is nuts, the trigger may be incidental. He may as well have asked who had more than one vowel in their first name. Logic isn’t a big part of it.
Which is getting into great Debates Territory. this attitude never stopped anybody decrying the racism that led to another recent shooting. In that case the word of the killer was considered perfectly logical and all the evidence needed to determine the motivations.
[QUOTE=Diceman]
But he apparently didn’t ask people if they were religious, he asked if they were Christian. Plenty of people who identify themselves as “spiritual but not religious” have a particular hatred of Christianity, well beyond any feelings they might display about any other organized religion. As it is, that label doesn’t even tell us if this guy was an atheist, or if he followed a new-age belief system, or what.
[/QUOTE]
You can’t trust those New Age people: they’ll slaughter people en masse without a qualm with nothing but ice in their eyes.
A Snapshot of Students Lost
While the gunman apparently asked one student if she was a Christian before shooting her, he killed a diversity of people, and probably was not making a good-faith effort to establish their religion before killing people. By the time someone is shooting up a classroom, the conversations they have with their victims are not sincere.
From the article above:
“Mr. Harper-Mercer collected handguns and rifles, and he regularly went to a shooting range with his mother, said neighbors in Torrance, Calif., where the two lived until moving to Oregon in 2013. At a barbecue shortly before they left, Mr. Harper-Mercer spent hours talking with a next-door neighbor about guns and how he and his mother were excited to leave Los Angeles and get a fresh start.”
Bolding mine.
I do not understand this mother taking her son, who she knows is mentally disturbed, to a shooting range. The mother of Adam Lanza did the same thing.
Encouraging an interest in deadly weapons in such a person seems like a really bad idea to me. Stamp collecting sounds like a much better option.