So, don’t turn this into a flame fest. As much as I don’t like Bush, and have poked fun at his inability to articulate himself extemporaneously, I am beginning to think that I shouldn’t because I remember someone saying that it could be the beginning of a medical problem. I think it was either Parkinsons or Alzheimers.
I have read somewhere where they mentioned that they saw Bush in an interview when he was manager of the Texas rangers, and they mentioned that he was a much more gifted speaker.
I myself have seen a Bush debate against Anne Richards when he was running for Governor the first time. He was notably more articulate here too, but not what I would consider a normal level for a politician.
I always figured that, in the beginning that it was the pressure of running a national campaign in 2000, and that he would become more comfortable.
So would it be possible for a person to become less articulate as the early signs of Alzheimers or Parkinsons (I can’t remember which one) . This came from a liberal blog, which I would quote right now if there weren’t a database problem. It was from a comment from a Doctor.
I don’t want this to turn into a partisan rumble. I simply ask that you view some footage of Bush with a careful eye from before and then now. I think he has become less articulate. Could a medical problem be the cause of this? Does he have symptoms of a medical problem?
Make of it what you will, but here’s a link to an article by someone who maintains that GWB is, indeed, showing many of the early signs of Alzheimer’s.
Based on what we saw tonight in the 1st debates, you may have a point there. I doubt Alzheimer’s but something neurological perhaps. He has trouble with word-finding and a sort of verbal dyslexia (“mexed missages”, “peeance freeance”, etc) and you can almost see him wrestle with his mouth and tongue to make them wrap around words as he’s speaking.
I recall that in 2000 there was speculation that he is merely slightly dyslexic. As far as I know, the condition is not related to intelligence, although in the past when less was known about it, sufferers were thought to be lacking in that department.
I’ts more than dyslexia. Remember the “federal cufflinks” gaffe when he obviously was trying to come up with “handcuffs”? Word-finding. He knows there’s a word but can’t lay his tongue on it.
Wonder if he could have MS. Does he seem clumsy sometimes? I haven’t heard of falling or problems with walking, although there was that incident with the Ginger, umm, whatever they ended up calling those thingies.
Or it could be something more specific to language centers in the brain. I’m no neurologist so I don’t know what all’s out there.
Somebody else (maybe on another thread here) has speculated that his problem may be the result of the heavy drinking he engaged in until he was 40. Is that likely?
For Texas dopers, has he really changed over time? Did he have a reputation as “Mr. Malaprop” as governor? Or is it possible that he hasn’t changed, but that the President just gets closer scrutiny than anybody else?
“As much as I don’t like Bush” says it all. You’ve been here long enough to know many of us don’t like any politics in General Questions, I’ve braved Great Debates a few times and it doesn’t leave me a happy man.
One might see it as a covert anti-Bush thread. No one here is qualified to diagnose the President’s health condition based on speaking abilities, perhaps he is just nervous or perhaps a peron’s dislike of Bush causes them to perceive him as a lousy speaker - but there’s no doubt just as many people who think he’s a good speaker. Another might think Kerry is a lousy speaker. It’s a subjective biased question with no answer and belongs in another forum.
“I don’t want this to turn into a partisan rumble.” Just stating this doesn’t allow one to attack the opposite political party with free reign.
Ditto Bob55. I’ll easily admit that Bush isn’t the best extemperaneous speaker. When he was running for governer in Texas (I was stationed there) he was pretty much the same. Is this a terrible flaw somehow, as human rather than anything politcal?
I can’t imagine that half of us here have the perfect ability to give extermperaneous discourse. If I were dictator of the US, you would all suffer under me 'cos I’m smart and I know what’s good for you all, but I’d make some verbal gaffes in the course.
Um… I’m interested in this question too, and I don’t think it has anything to do with politics.
I wouldn’t have looked in “Great Debates” because it’s a factual question:
Are there any references his neurological condition? What could his speech problems indicate, i.e., what conditions match his symptoms?
Was he more articulate in his younger years? I.e. has there been an observable change?
Those are both questions which can be answered with data or references. I don’t think his malapropisms are a point of opinion. They have nothing to do with his “being a good speaker” because being a good speaker assumes you’re on a relatively equal playing field with others - in Bush’s case, the fumbling is bad and chronic enough that it’s clear it comes from an obvious disability; not from within the average range of functioning.
I too heard part of his debate with Richards on the radio recently, and he was a lot quicker on his feet back then.
Although I am fervently anti-Bush, I find this to be a ridiculous criticism. None of us are really equipped to judge how smart we sound when speaking to millions of people, with cameras recording our every word and gesture almost ever second, when any mistake is magnified, etc. When Dubya was a young man, he was not under the pressures he is now. Perhaps we will one day find out it is the early stages of something, but IMHO, if there is something real going on, it’s not something that’s going to affect him seriously anytime soon.
I mean, aren’t there enough things to zing him on without resorting to un-answerable attacks like this? It debases the entire political process that commentary like this gets any traction at all.
Neurological?? I assumed the many mid-sentence pauses and stutters in his speaking at the debates was due to him listening to his advisors via an in-the-ear transmitter, much like a newscaster listens to the producer while on the air.
I know what happens when you assume, but… that wasn’t it?
When Ronald Reagan was president, most of America chose to overlook his little mental lapses. Respect must be shown for the presidency, and all that. When he said he couldn’t recall, in the Iran-Contra hearings, I felt that either he was lying, or he had lost his mind. As we now know, he had lost his mind.
The issue of a president’s fitness to govern is a complicated one. Constitutional scholars come out of nowhere to debate the finer points. Supporters of the president in question swarm to his defense. The Reaganites, for example, resolutely said he was sharp as a tack. Unfortunately, he was sharp as a track.
At risk of further hijack, what is the average length of time between Alzheimers symptoms and death? I know that the disease kills slowly, but I thought it was faster than 18 years…
Seconded. I personally am extremely anti-Bush but I think the problems are probably more due to extreme stress than anything else. Heck, I tend mix-up words and start sprouting malaprops anytime I start talking to a single guy…
With my grandad, it was over 11 years You can hang on for a long time with Alzheimer’s, given proper care and feeding, sadly.
What I think is odd about Bush’s speech pattern is that he sometimes stumbles over his catchphrases (“mixed messages,” for example, last night). We’ve all got boilerplate phrases that we drop into conversation, but how many of us stumble over our boilerplate?
I’m not sure how this question or any of the responses have anything to do with this forum. and the phrase “I don’t want this to turn into a partisan rumble” is just silly.
“We all know that Bush is a horrible speaker. Is it because he’s a moron, or is he just insane? Oh, factual answers only, please!”
There was a letter to the editor (from an M.D.) published in the most recent Atlantic monthly which outlined the consistency of President Bush’s speech patterns with “presenile dementia.”
First, I agree that this isn’t a GQ - it really should be in GD. Also, let me say that like many in this thread, I am fervently anti-Bush. But the idea of an illness being responsible for his appearing inarticulate is far fetched, and is a cheap shot against a candidate, who, I might add, has many more documented points of weakness. So why make one up?
I have a much more likely hypothesis:
I would suspect, and most would agree, that running a baseball team is easier than running the state of Texas, and that running Texas is easier than running the US. Thus, as Bush has been placed in positions of progressively more difficult responsibility, the demands of said responsibility will bump up against the upper limits of his intellect and capabilities - thus the malaprop-laden spectacle we saw last night.
He may have been more articulate in the dabates of 2000 simply because he did not have to think on his feet to defend his administration’s perceived mistakes - at that point, he did not have a presidential administration to defend, and as such had the advantage over Gore.
You can hang on for a long time with Alzheimer’s, given proper care and feeding, sadly.