Absurd Reactions To Transvestites

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
21

[QUOTE=astro]
Do you leave him with the kids … or not?
[/QUOTE]

That would be “her”, and if you think I’d leave someone with my hypothetical children without knowing anything beyond a person’s gender identification, you’re nutty. Is she actually going to make them eat their broccoli? Will she know what to do if one of them gets hurt? Is she going to invite strangers over or watch inappropriate TV shows?

What she keeps in her pants is totally irrelevant, unless I have some reason to believe she’s liable to show it to the kids. If she declared her intentions to show off her penis to my little ones, I’d probably find someone else.

22

As a general rule people deserve to be treated with compassion, respect, and understanding. I’m not used to seeing transvestites, and yes I admit to doing a double take, but I made sure I didn’t gawk and I certainly didn’t snicker or make snide comments.

I think it makes people uncomfortable to see someone buck gender trends. Our behavior towards other people is based, in part, on their gender. So when someone comes along who doesn’t quite fit our expectations we can have strange reactions. I don’t mean to excuse people for bad behavior but it’s an interesting topic.

Marc

23

[QUOTE=astro]
Let’s say the 16 year old babysitter you hired on a friend’s recommendation turns out to be a tall, muscular, linebacker sized 16 year old young man wearing a cute sundress and size 13 strappy orange sandals who calls him/herself “Jolene”.
[/QUOTE]

Apparently my friend had a reason for recommending Jolene to me, right?

24

It’s a bit like having a person with multiple face piercings as a child minder.
Some people may worry that such a person might have other departures from social norms that they don’t want their children exposed too. Plenty of people don’t want there children exposed to heavy metal music for instance.
Others might fear that their children might decide they want to have face piercings if they get to like trust and admire the child minder. That may be off putting to some parents.

Same with any other way people appear. I’d be worried with gay child minders exposing children to show tunes (yuck), English child minders exposing children to bad English food (double yuck), very Religious child minders exposing children to a very limited and extreme view of their religion.

A right of parents is the ability to provide the surroundings for your children that they approve of. I doubt anyone here would object to someone expose their child to their own religious views prefferentially to any other religious ideas.

25

I guess the real question here, at least to me, is, does she look like Eddie Izzard? 'Cause, yeah. Not only would I leave her with my hypothetical kids, I’d pay in naughty rewards. :smiley:

Sorry, kids. Just trying to lighten the mood.
My need to do nasty things to Eddie Izzard notwithstanding.

26

[QUOTE=matt_mcl]
Apparently my friend had a reason for recommending Jolene to me, right?
[/QUOTE]

Absolutely, Jolene’s great with kids! Highest recommendations! But Jolene is also (physically) a large young man in a pretty yellow sundress. Which way do you go?

27

The most ridiculous reaction I ever saw to a transvestite was while working as a bouncer at a bar in Oshkosh, WI.

The young man in women’s clothing attempted to use the ladies’ room and was ejected by the ladies within. So his only other choice is to use the mens’ room, he is heading in that direction when a quite large meathead steps in his way and tells him, forcefully and with substantial colorful and insulting language, he can’t use that bathroom either.

I stepped up and told him to go ahead and use the mens’ room, when the meathead told me he was going to “kick that fag’s ass” when he came out. I just stared at him for a while and said “Yes, I’m sure everyone here will be impressed with your ability to beat up a guy in a sparkly gown. Go drink your beer and leave him alone”

28

[QUOTE=astro]
Absolutely, Jolene’s great with kids! Highest recommendations! But Jolene is also (physically) a large young man in a pretty yellow sundress. Which way do you go?
[/QUOTE]

Well, if Jolene is a babysitter par excellence, what do I care what she’s wearing? My kids might ask, but I think Jolene wouldn’t take babysitting jobs if she weren’t prepared to answer questions about why she looks like a wrestler in a dress.

I will admit to occasionally staring at transvestites I see in public locations. Although usually, I’m wondering if they will take it the wrong way if I ask just how they got their lipstick that perfect. When I stare, I’m looking for makeup tips. I don’t care how somebody dresses. I feel it’s how they act that defines them as a person.

And, since this thread has probably caught the attention of most of the Dope’s transvestites–would you be offended if some strange woman approached you for hair and/or makeup tips? Or to tell you she loved your dress? I’ll admit to being afraid the subject of my wonderings will think I’m making fun of her when I’m honestly interested.

29

[QUOTE=astro]
Absolutely, Jolene’s great with kids! Highest recommendations! But Jolene is also (physically) a large young man in a pretty yellow sundress. Which way do you go?
[/QUOTE]

Why shouldn’t I trust him with my kids, if I have good information about his reliablity from a trusted source?

30

[QUOTE=Mangetout]
I agree; if you’ve thought it through and come to the conclusion that your kids are safe with a complete stranger in a suit, but unsafe with a guy in a dress, then you’re wrong, but I’m talking about situations where gut reaction plays a significant part. When we encounter something unexpected, unsual or inconguous, we instinctively apply extra (possibly entirely unnecessary) caution; that’s pretty much all I was saying.
[/QUOTE]

Oh, no–no worries at all. I got what you were saying, and I totally didn’t think that you were trying to defend **Black Train Song’s ** position.

As for gut reaction: Yeah, I think I get what you’re saying, but I’m just saying that, IMHO, something is seriously effed up if the totality of someone’s gut reaction (and yeah, this goes for positive as well as negative reactions) is that “this person doesn’t look like they inhabit my social sphere.” Y’know?

[QUOTE=ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]
Just park your little fly derriere on the wall and watch the froth fly when the feminst/lesbian seperatist extremists even think they see what might have been an adam’s apple or 5 o’clock shadow anywhere near one of their gatherings.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I’ve heard that from time to time (especially with regard to the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival), and it’s always boggled my mind, too. Mind you, I understand the need that some lesbians/feminists have to carve out a niche for themselves that’s free from patriarchal power and influence, but MTF’s and “X” number of transexuals just want a place where they, too, can feel safe from that same patriarchal influence, and it’s always saddened and disgusted me that they can’t necessarily find that in places that are supposed to be safe spaces for “womyn.” Or even among gay men, for that matter. (Then, again, I’m a gay man who doesn’t believe that there’s just one way to be gay or lesbian or whatever, so what the hell do I know?) :wink:

[QUOTE=astro]
…young man wearing a cute sundress and size 13 strappy orange sandals who calls him/herself “Jolene”. She seems like a nice person.

Do you leave him with the kids … or not?
[/QUOTE]

Size 13, you say? 'Cause if that’s a man’s size 13, the *first * thing I’m liable to ask is, “Chiiiild, whereEVER did you get those shoes, and does the store have lay-away 'til payday?” because hey, let’s face it, as a gay, Black, Jewish atheist of Southern heritage, I haven’t figured out enough ways to freak out my conservative (well, really, conservative Democratic) South Carolina family. Gotta keep 'em on their toes, doncha know? :wink: And yeah, what **Excalibre ** and **Miller ** said.

And, August West, that was pretty cool of you. I’m not a transvestite, so I won’t try to speak for transvestites, but yeah, I certainly appreciate it. :slight_smile:

31

Eh, usually when I defend myself I tend to put my foot in my mouth.

I wasn’t trying to insinuate that transvestites are more likely to harm a child although it appears that I was.

I guess that anyone who displays deviations from the norm (whatever that is) would somehow appear on my radar sooner. That being said, I wouldn’t trust my kids around a perfect stranger who appears normal either.

But to be fair I did say it. I think the bigger problem I have with it is that I’d question anyone who thinks they appear one way when they don’t by a long shot. Like a man dressed as a woman but who obviously looks like a man. If it were a man dressed as a woman but who looks like a woman I’d probably have less of a problem with it.

If my kids had friends who were sexually confused or sexually different I would encourage them to be supportive of their friend.

32

[QUOTE=Draelin]
And, since this thread has probably caught the attention of most of the Dope’s transvestites–would you be offended if some strange woman approached you for hair and/or makeup tips? Or to tell you she loved your dress? I’ll admit to being afraid the subject of my wonderings will think I’m making fun of her when I’m honestly interested.
[/QUOTE]

Shoot, if it was me I’d be deeply flattered that a lovely young lady might want beauty tips from little ol’ me. Positive reinforcement like that is like candy. :slight_smile:
As long as your approach is friendly-like, I don’t see what there is to be afraid of.

33

I really don’t have a problem with it and I wouldn’t insult the person, but I admit it makes me laugh.

34

[QUOTE=Li’l Pluck]

Size 13, you say? 'Cause if that’s a man’s size 13, the *first * thing I’m liable to ask is, “Chiiiild, whereEVER did you get those shoes, and does the store have lay-away 'til payday?” because hey, let’s face it, as a gay, Black, Jewish atheist of Southern heritage, I haven’t figured out enough ways to freak out my conservative (well, really, conservative Democratic) South Carolina family. Gotta keep 'em on their toes, doncha know? :wink: And yeah, what **Excalibre ** and **Miller ** said.

[/QUOTE]

Leonard’s in Vegas. A shoestore for big and wide feet. My girlfriends have mutant feet and several years ago we went for a girl’s weekend in Vegas. They found Leonard’s and now they go back regularly.

(I didn’t go, I can pick up seven’s off the clearance rack - nice to be a non-mutant..

They did mention that the clientele had both types of ladies. Not shocking, being a shoestore for big feet in Vegas. They also mentioned that the tourists shopping there were taking the transvestites in perfect stride, they were very impressed with the openmindedness of Midwesterners on vacation in Vegas,

35

[QUOTE=Barking Dog]
Shoot, if it was me I’d be deeply flattered that a lovely young lady might want beauty tips from little ol’ me. Positive reinforcement like that is like candy. :slight_smile:
As long as your approach is friendly-like, I don’t see what there is to be afraid of.
[/QUOTE]

Can I piggyback with an even more sensitive question? How do I delicately and without offense ask an other-than-obvious-binary-gendered person what pronoun they prefer? I was at a party two weeks ago where I met this very charming person named Morgan who simply defined androgyny in physical appearance, dress and movement, and I eventually felt awkward constantly using the name Morgan to refer to Morgan because I wasn’t sure whether Morgan was a man, a woman, both, neither or some combination of the above. It wasn’t terribly important to me personally (I didn’t want to sleep with Morgan) or politically (Morgan wouldn’t be my only gender-flexible friend), but it was just socially awkward. I finally pulled aside someone else who knew Morgan who gave me the answer (“Call her ‘she’.”), but I’d like to come up with some way to address it without whispering behind anyone’s back, you know?

36

Sounds like a bad saturday night live sketch. :stuck_out_tongue:

Seriously tho, WhyNot, aside from waiting till they go to the bathroom and seeing if they go through the door marked either ‘pointers’ or ‘setters’, I can only imagine that if you had showed yourself to be earnest and sincere then, if you had asked Morgan point-blank, she probably wouldn’t have been offended. Obviously I don’t know this young lady, so I could be wrong. It’s just that, in my experience, most folks respond positively to politeness and respect.
They way I figure it, such awkward social situations are far too delicate to tip-toe around. The only thing for it is to run away, or plunge ahead. And just might gain some respect if you display just some simple common courtesy.

37

[QUOTE=Black Train Song]
Eh, usually when I defend myself I tend to put my foot in my mouth.

I wasn’t trying to insinuate that transvestites are more likely to harm a child although it appears that I was.

I guess that anyone who displays deviations from the norm (whatever that is) would somehow appear on my radar sooner. That being said, I wouldn’t trust my kids around a perfect stranger who appears normal either.

But to be fair I did say it. I think the bigger problem I have with it is that I’d question anyone who thinks they appear one way when they don’t by a long shot. Like a man dressed as a woman but who obviously looks like a man. If it were a man dressed as a woman but who looks like a woman I’d probably have less of a problem with it.

If my kids had friends who were sexually confused or sexually different I would encourage them to be supportive of their friend.
[/QUOTE]

Understood–thanks for the clarification. And I don’t know about you, but I usually prefer a nice syrrah with my own foot. :smiley:

38

[QUOTE=Barking Dog]
Sounds like a bad saturday night live sketch. :stuck_out_tongue:
[/QUOTE]

Kinda felt like it, actually!

So a kind smile with, “Excuse me, I don’t mean to be boorish, but should I refer to you as ‘he’ or ‘she’?” wouldn’t be…provincial? :stuck_out_tongue:

My biggest worry, frankly was that she wasn’t, in fact, transgendered or a transvestite, and the very question would be insulting to a male-born-still-male or a female-born-still-female. But I guess the chances of that are slim.

39

[QUOTE=WhyNot]

My biggest worry, frankly was that she wasn’t, in fact, transgendered or a transvestite, and the very question would be insulting to a male-born-still-male or a female-born-still-female. But I guess the chances of that are slim.
[/QUOTE]

It’s kind of like not wanting to ask a woman when she’s due only to be told she’s not pregnant.

Marc

40

[QUOTE=Mangetout]
we often judge the apparent trustworthiness of people by their conformity to some kind of norm (not that I’m saying this is a great idea, because it can easily backfire). Unexpectedly encountering someone who conspicuously diverges from the norm often creates an involuntary sense of mistrust.
Putting gut reactions into words, the guy in the suit and the mother in the floral print dress seem naturally trustworthy, because as far as we can tell, they exist within the same social boundaries as ourselves; The guy in the chiffon dress is an unknown quantity - we can clearly see that he is not constrained by some of the same boundaries as us, and we can’t help fearing that there might be other boundaries by which he is not constrained.

So I think it can be quite a natural reaction, not that this is particularly useful, because axe-murderers can be guys in suits; so I don’t wish to excuse or even support the reaction as reasonable, but I think it’s understandable and natural, and not necessarily attributable to malice or conscious prejudice.
[/QUOTE]
I think you have a very good point here. I think it’s natural to be uncomfortable around people who are living by a different set of rules than you are, because you don’t know what to expect from them.
(Anybody ever read Theodore Sturgeon’s story “Affair with a Green Monkey”?)