[QUOTE=Annie-Xmas]
Don’t forget those of us who have suffered abuse and chose not the have children because we couldn’t take the risk of continuing the cycle.
[/QUOTE]
Of course I haven’t forgotten you; that definitely counts as stopping the cycle of abuse!
This kind of thing has come up in a minor way in our family. One of my brothers apparently feels very put out about his raising, and he’s bringing up the idea of his kids not being tainted by being around our dad.
My thoughts on the subject is that mature adults do the thing that makes the situation best. If the parent has come crawling back in apology, then probably the best thing is to take care of them, while not putting up with any further abuse or justifications. If the parent is still working the same angles, then don’t put up with it. I’ve told my dad, “I’m 30 years old, and I don’t have to agree with you.” He can get pushy about arguing and insisting that people tell him he’s right.
Originally Posted by lobotomyboy63
Abusers were often those who were abused themselves as children. They let out the rage when they get older and take it out on their own children. They simply can’t help themselves.
[QUOTE=phouka]
Yes, they can. That’s the whole point of being human and having free will. Unless there is an organic disorder of the brain, each person out there has the ability to control their temper, the ability to unclench their fist, and the ability to walk away from a situation before resorting to violence.
I have all the sympathy in the world for a person who fears they could be abusive and asks for help or refuses to put themselves in a situation where they might become abusive. I have no sympathy for a person who fucking well knows better but still raises a hand to their child, and then passes it off as the child’s fault.
[/QUOTE]
From what I understand, it can be a vicious cycle. They relive the helplessness, take it out on others to feel they have power, then feel helpless because they can’t control themselves. Shame, fear, lather, rinse, repeat.
I don’t believe, either, that each of us has the same fortitude. It’s especially true when you have an abused child that can’t form a strong core because parent(s) continually beat them down. Ever see “Sybil”?
And I think that goes beyond some nebulous psychic phantoms of the brain. Millon and Everly wrote a book that impressed the hell out of me, talking about how the substrates of the brain are physically changed. This is why depressives tend to remain so or psychotics don’t just “snap out of it” one day. There’s a psychological momentum that shouldn’t be underestimated.
IANA psychologist but I’ve had a fair number of courses. I don’t think people trash their children for the fun of it—from an evolutionary perspective that would make zero sense.
And then there’s the whole “You have to admit, first, that you have a problem” and that long list of steps toward recovery. Just as I don’t believe all alcoholics have the ability to put down the bottle without serious intervention and qualified professional help, I don’t believe all abusers have the ability to unclench the fist without same.
My father physically abused me as a child and continues to bully me as an adult when, on rare occasion, I see him. I lived with and took care of my mother when she died in her mid-50s. That was very difficult, and I liked her.
There is no way in hell that I will ever take care of my father. I leave him to my brother. Since my dad only respects men, my brother is the right person to take care of him. That said, my dad has such rage issues (and always has), I wouldn’t be surprised if my brother doesn’t help him either. Frankly, I look forward to the day my father is out of my life permanently. When he eventually dies, I plan to throw a party and celebrate. That may sound bad, but it is only then, I will be truly free of this horrible man.
As he ages, he gets even meaner. His siblings want nothing to do with him, nor does my sister. He has earned his old age loneliness.
But would you take care of your **zombie **parents?
Without first reading the thread, my off-the-top response:
My parents will reap what they sowed. I plan to treat them exactly how they treated me when I needed them.
In my mom’s case, I might just ignore/abandon her.
In my dad’s case, I will respond exactly how he responded to me, “Oh. We’re friends now, huh?” And then I will turn my back on his ass and let him figure things out for himself.
I know it’s a zombie thread but the topic is ageless.
I only glanced over the responses past the op (with whom I fully support from 5 years ago) but yeah I think I can sum up my opinion as:
“To each of you who has endured abuse, any decision you make of your own free will as to how you treat your abuser(s) is totally acceptable. Your life, your decision; you owe nobody any honors because they were your parents, and you owe none of us observers any explanations for your choices.”
Good luck to all of you who must face these problems.
I am a moron.
Apparently I read and responded to this years ago. :smack:
Old thread? Who cares, it’s a great topic. I’ve already cut off my dad. He can’t call me or send mail/email. The only way I’d even find out he’s sick is if my sister tells me. I won’t dance on his grave, but bringing flowers while putting in a brief appearance at his funeral will be the extent of my involvement.
On a related note, I’m in the process of relocating halfway across the country. A large part of the reason I’m so anxious to get out of dodge is to make permanent the escape from my mom’s disabled, passive-aggressive, guilt-tripping clutches. I was there for her during the first couple years of her illness, when she lived closer to me. I missed a lot of work and almost lost my job, and she did NOT make an effort to improve her diet when it could have saved her eyesight. I decided, for the sake of my mental health, that being her personal taxi is no longer feasible. Laying out boundaries doesn’t work with this woman–it’s either all or nothing, and I’ve chosen nothing. I’ve gotten pretty good at dodging her guilt trips, but it will be much easier when I have a “sorry, the 12-hour trip is too long/expensive” excuse to fall back on.
I have very little sympathy anymore for her health problems, considering she chose to move far away from family, alienated them, then ate herself into her current condition (going blind from diabetic retinopathy) while continuing to alienate people. It’s her own damn fault she doesn’t go anywhere. And she has a standing offer to move in with my sister, anyway.
No regrets, no guilt. It’s cold, but they fucked me up utterly and you reap what you sow. If either of my parents had an inkling of self-awareness, they would never have had kids in the *first *fucking place.
My father did not physically abuse me, but he was a terrible father/ husband.
I did not have much contact with him after I left school, but some years ago when he was elderly, I visited with him for a month to see if he’d show any indication that he loved me, or was sorry for being a failure as a parent. Neither was forthcoming, so that was the end of it so far as I was concerned.
Love your thought provoking post.
Like you, I felt fuck em and committed. In theory I remain unchanged. In practice, I suspect I will extend myself a little more than fuck em…like rides to the doctor. Not much more. Someone commented that people can change and usually people who find away to see their children as vessels for their own use won’t change. If they appear to, it’s usually when they are dying and want comfort or absolution. “I am sorry, so sorry. Please don’t leave me alone.” We are still a means for them to achieve ________.
In the end, through therapy, I realized my father never held back his love…he just didn’t have that much to give. He’s flawed. My mother held it all back and resented us for having the expectation. She’s disordered and it has nothing to do with us.
All 3 of her kids are train wrecks. She asked me “Why are all of you so unsettled and unstable?” As if it were something that happened while she was in the bathroom.
Good luck with your process.
Basic answer is still the same it was 5 years ago, but in the time between I did consult a lawyer specifically on the subject of “what are a child’s legal obligations towards parents.” Turns out that in our demarcation and for a parent whose retirement income is as high as my mother’s, the answer is “fuck all.” Knowing this makes it easier for me and the Bros to tell her to fuck off when she says something completely stupid or tries to overstep our boundaries: our response to “you owe me your life!”* has become “actually Mom, that isn’t a legally-recognized debt. Call me again when you’re willing to behave like you were taught some manners.”
Very late to this thread…
My mother was a horrible person. She still is. She goes into fits of rage when she doesn’t get her way about trivial things. She has physically harmed my wife.
So, she doesn’t get to see my wife. My brother won’t let her see his kids. I take care of household issues for her when I can, and tell her to get the condo management to do most of it. (They don’t like being around her, so they tend to put her on a back burner. Can’t blame them.)
She lies to me (I’ve proved it with documentation), she lies to her Doctors (“I don’t drink at all!” when she downs two boxes of wine a day), she lies about us to others (“They NEVER call or help in any way”).
Her health is declining. She won’t listen to doctors. I’ve done four interventions for her in the past 20 years. I’ve had her put in rehab by her last doctor 3 yrs ago. She refuses to change. She is toxic.
By all rights, my brother and I could leave her absolutely abandoned and be in the right for doing so. We’ve made a a pact to treat her with civility where we can, ignore her otherwise.
When and if she goes down without dying, we are putting in a facility and letting SS/Medicare pay it, no money out of our pocket.
When she dies, we will simply cremate her and inter her, no funeral.
It’s not harsh. It is a judgement, tho. And I am completely comfortable with it. Finally. Took me years of therapy and a very supportive mate/best friend to make it this far.
To anyone in any type of similar situation: It’s all YOUR call. Don’t let anyone else convince you otherwise.
This.
And this.
I’ve taken a good amount of crap for the fact that I don’t really give a shit what happens to my parents and that I won’t participate in the sinkhole that is “saving them from themselves”. It’s been implied to me that I am a bad person and a bad sister and selfish and immature.
So. Fucking. What.