First off: Agreed, of course, that mods deserve respect, mods need to have both discretion and discretionary power, and posters who break rules should face pre-agreed consequences.
I see no end of problems with switching rules mid-thread. I think it will not serve to make any boundaries clearer. It seems to turn the Pit boundaries into a moving target.
I’m not convinced that any eyes are actually being gouged (though feelings may indeed be being hurt). Is it really so bad for an occasional thread to end in a flaming wreck?
If it is, and I realize many people do believe it is, I think it would make more sense for the rule to be “You’re allowed to be insulting and curse and stuff in the Pit, but you are not allowed to be cruel. If a mod thinks you’re getting too rough even for the Pit, that mod can ask you to scale it back. If you don’t, or if you argue, you’re suspended. Mods are allowed to use subjective judgment in such cases. If you don’t like it, don’t play.”
I know some posters don’t want mods to have power to act on subjective evaluations in the first place, but I think it’s unreasonable to expect anything else.
The thread that gave rise to the present controversy clearly went too far. As for close-but-not-over, please, this isn’t the kind of thing that lends itself to precise calibration. Most of the Pit threads I read are fine.
I thought about that. Tell you what, I’ll try it after I post this.
Mods (and admins) are expected to moderate. I choose them because they have thick skins and level heads, which isn’t a pretty picture but useful in this line of work. They aren’t allowed to insult posters except in the Pit, and even there they’re expected to exercise restraint, particularly when acting in an official capacity. (By the way, “no insults” doesn’t mean they have to be invariably gentle. I like to sign up people who can handle themselves under the basket, if you follow me.) Occasionally a mod does something inadvisable; I handle these matters privately. If you have a beef and pitting the mod doesn’t provide sufficient satisfaction, feel free to e-mail me.
I believe this is technically possible, but with thousands of posters it would be a helluva job to administer. I strongly advise against posting without knowing what forum you’re in.
We would never say, you’re not allowed to insult anyone, but everyone else can insult you.
We hope no one will try to twist the procedure to his advantage in this way, and will look unkindly on anyone who does.
This is not aimed at certain posters, and we don’t expect to be handing out warnings right and left once non-Pit rules are imposed. We just want things to settle down. The idea is to give us another option besides shutting down a thread altogether.
The idea is to avoid imposing draconian rules that would turn this into Pit Lite. Most MBs don’t have anything akin to the Pit (I’m sure there are exceptions); they just throw you out. I like the Pit and enjoy entertaining vitriol as much as the next guy. I don’t see this procedure being imposed often; most Pit threads are fine.
I hope y’all manage to find a way to keep the lights on. This place is unique.
I see train wrecks ahead with this new rule but I’ll do my best to comply. I understand what you’re trying to do, but I much prefer bare knuckle posting. Personally I find a good kick in the chops to be refreshing and inspirational.
I thought the grilling you took over some recent bannings was waaaay over the top and you showed remarkable restraint toward some of the mouthier flamers. I’m down with intellectual honesty and all, but there’s no reason you should have to put up with that kind of shit.
Yet there are limits to The Pit. Flaming is permitted but is not a requirement, and sometimes gets out of hand with bad results. Ed is trying to institute some basic fire prevention.
I think this is a good idea. I’m thinking specifically of the Hitler Birthday Cake thread which started out fine but got really heated over a weird issue. If a mod had come down with the NPR around post 40 or so, it might have turned out much better.
Add me to the roster of people who think that this will only serve to make things more confusing. I suggest that maybe if a thread is being hijacked by something such as a flame war between two posters, then maybe the mod could step in and tell them to take it to a separate thread.
If we get a thread that seems to be turning into an interesting discussion, then maybe we should move it elsewhere.
I would suggest “Cooldown Rules” rather than “Non-Pit Rules”, defining what a “cooldown” is, and using that across the boards. GD threads can get out of hand without needing to be locked or moved sometimes too. Maybe it could be as simple as no one being allowed to post addressing another poster, but only in direct statements of their own positions, until the rule is lifted.
Ed, thanks for the updates- and for the updates to the Board software. I, for one, think they work really well.
I will watch the implementation of the new rules with interest, although I don’t think this is going to work too well.
Re: Euthanasiast, while I think he got the short end of the stick to some degree, aren’t we kind of legislating for a problem that doesn’t really exist? I’ve been around for quite a while, and I don’t recall a similar situation ever having occurred before.
I’ve thought for several years that there should be at least two Pit fora: one for us to Pit off-board persons and entities (e.g. Pitting Barack Obama), and another for us to Pit each other.
It fits into the present conversation because non-Pit rules between posters could apply to the ‘Pitting outsiders’ forum as a whole.
Have you been back to see how that one’s going? I’m not at all convinced a mod could have helped at the worst stage, and it also took a turn for the better later.
OK, but can’t the mods hose 'em down *without *a change of rules in the middle of a thread? If the rule is always “mind the mods” even in the Pit, and as far as I know it is, is a new rule needed?
This has always been an option and will continue to be. I expect NPR to be invoked in the relatively rare case that (a) an otherwise interesting and/or entertaining thread has turned into (or is verging on) an all-out flamewar that is needlessly getting lots of people ticked off - we don’t see this too often; or (b) a controversy has erupted over board administration and we want everybody to calm down while we get things sorted out. Again, not common but it happens and it’s ugly when it does.
As others have remarked, Pit threads are rarely suitable for other forums.
I thought of that as well. But I also noticed that anyone can place that statement in his thread title. ISTM that in addition to this, the mod who changes the status could append such a statement to the OP.
