According to Traditional and Mainstream Islamic Source, the Prophet Muhammad Raped a Child

[Hank_Beecher]

1. Premise: A nine year old child can not consent to sex with an adult.

2. According to Islamic tradition Muhammad engaged his child bride Aisha at six and consummated his marriage when she was nine. cite To be a Muslim is to be proud of this.

3. Thread title, logically follows from points one and two. This is considered offensive to say even though points one and two are accepted truths. It is like logic itself has become offensive.

A person born a Muslim has the choice of becoming an apostate, under penalty of death, or accepting and apologizing for pedophilia. What a horrid inheritance.

[outlierrn]

Was point one an accepted truth at the time? Just asking.

And what was that old testament story about the 2 sisters who couldn’t get a husband so they got their father loaded on wine and banged him to get a baby? Can’t remember which book that was in.

[Ibn_Warraq]

I’m a bit confused.

The Wikipedia article you link to begins by claiming that she was born in 612 AD and later claims she was born in 614 AD.

How exactly could she have been born in both 612 AD and 614 AD?

Also, according to certain hadiths weren’t all of Abu Bakr’s children before Muhammad heard the call meaning she would have had to been born in at least 609 AD?

So, how could she be born prior to 610 AD while also being born in 612 AD and 614 AD?

[Hamlet]

Is this Islam only bashing, or can we get into Numbers 31:17-18, Judges 21:10-24, and others too?

[Ibn_Warraq]

I’m also unaware of the fact that Muslims are required to be proud if the fact that Muhammad is alleged to have married a woman with at least three different birthdays.

I checked with my father and he wasn’t.

Perhaps our good friend Beecher can enlighten us.

[Ibn_Warraq]

I also was unaware that Wikipedia was considered a “traditional and mainstream Islamic source” as the title labels it.

[Der_Trihs]

That’s what happens when you set up someone who lived centuries ago as some kind of moral paragon or exemplar. We’ve progressed quite a bit.

[Hank_Beecher]

@Ibn_Warraq

I also was unaware that Wikipedia was considered a “traditional and mainstream Islamic source” as the title labels it.

I didn’t think it was necessary to transcribe the links to the relevant Bukhari and Muslim Hadiths. From what I understand these are the two most authentic Hadith, which Muslims use to determine the behavior of the prophet, the ideal man.

Sahih Bukhari 5:58:223 Narrated Aisha:
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, “Best wishes and Allah’s Blessing and a good luck.” Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah’s Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.

Sahih Muslim 8:3311 'A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.

Abu-Dawud 2:2116 "Aisha said, “The Apostle of Allah married me when I was seven years old.” (The narrator Sulaiman said: “Or six years.”). “He had intercourse with me when I was 9 years old.”

Sahih Bukhari 5:58:236 Narrated Hisham’s father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed (sic – consummated) that marriage when she was nine years old.

Sahih Bukhari 7:62.65 Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that ‘Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)’

Sahih Bukhari 7:62:88 Narrated 'Ursa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

I’m sure your father is a good man but if he publicly denied the validity of these Hadith would he be allowed into Mecca?

I don’t want to join some chorus of bigotry against Muslim people. I get that is the assumed motive behind pointing out something so vile about someone so holy to so many. But this is truth and I don’t think trying to deny or minimize it is good for anyone in the long run, especially Muslims.

[Ibn_Warraq]

You think Bukhari is a Hadith?

I’m sure your father is a good man but if he publicly denied the validity of these Hadith would he be allowed into Mecca?

Are you under the impression that Muslims are in agreement on what Hadiths or Ahadith, if you want to be pedantic, are deemed authentic?

Anyway, according to the wikipedia article you chose to use as your primary source Aisha was born in both 612 AD and 614 AD.

Can you please explain how she was able to accomplish that?

Thanks.

[Hank_Beecher]

@Ibn_Warraq

You think Bukhari is a Hadith?

No he is a dude, a traditional Islamic source.

[running_coach]

@Ibn_Warraq

You think Bukhari is a Hadith?

Are you under the impression that Muslims are in agreement on what Hadiths or Ahadith, if you want to be pedantic, are deemed authentic?

Anyway, according to the wikipedia article you chose to use as your primary source Aisha was born in both 612 AD and 614 AD.

Can you please explain how she was able to accomplish that?

Thanks.

You mean Muslims can’t agree on what parts are authentic?
That’s some Holy Book you got there. I thought it was regarded as THE Word Of Allah, no doubts about it.
As in, Allah guided those who wrote the words.

[Hank_Beecher]

@Ibn_Warraq

Are you under the impression that Muslims are in agreement on what Hadiths or Ahadith, if you want to be pedantic, are deemed authentic?

There is more agreement about some than others, the ones deemed the most authentic from what I understand are the collections of Bukhari and Muslim.

[John_Mace]

You are confusing the Koran with the Hadiths.

[Hank_Beecher]

@Ibn_Warraq

Anyway, according to the wikipedia article you chose to use as your primary source Aisha was born in both 612 AD and 614 AD.

Can you please explain how she was able to accomplish that?

Thanks.

I only used Wikipedia because it has convenient citations. I am not saying I know exactly when she was born, I am saying that the traditionally accepted age is six for engagement and nine for consummation.

[Ibn_Warraq]

@runner pat

You mean Muslims can’t agree on what parts are authentic?
That’s some Holy Book you got there. I thought it was regarded as THE Word Of Allah, no doubts about it.
As in, Allah guided those who wrote the words.

I was referring to hadiths not the Quran.

[John_Mace]

Rape is a legal term. . If it’s not illegal it’s not rape.

[Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension]

When this thread is over will I be allowed to eat rock badgers? *
*Leviticus 11:5

[Hank_Beecher]

@John_Mace

You are confusing the Koran with the Hadiths.

No I am not. Koran: perfect word of Allah transmitted through Mohammed. Hadith: sayings and habits of the prophet, the ideal man.

[Hank_Beecher]

@Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension

When this thread is over will I be allowed to eat rock badgers? *
*Leviticus 11:5

That verse had been abrogated. Let he who is without sin eat the first rock badger.

[Raging_Bull]

That first premise you state.

Which set of laws are you using, what constitutes a child, what constitutes rape, what age to minors attain majority?

If you cant answer this you have no thread