Hey! I know some of those people in black!
(Okay, back to catching up with the thread. . .)
Hey! I know some of those people in black!
(Okay, back to catching up with the thread. . .)
I shudder to think of the trauma all these folks who despise party invites with dress codes must go through when invited to a pot-luck.
Friendships, no doubt, have been lost because some poor bastard suggested they bring the Green Bean Casserole to the holiday get-together.
And, maybe, wear shoes too.
To return to the OP briefly:
My husband is also a ‘camo pants and tank top’ kind of guy. He owns one (black) suit, which was purchased at my insistence when he started applying to career paths instead of McJobs, and an random assortment of dress shirts. He hates and despises wearing them, especially with (his only) tie, but has finally reached the conclusion that I have a better sense of what’s appropriate wear in non-casual social situations. On the understanding that I don’t request it frivolously, he will wear the suit and appropriate accessories (dress shoes instead of construction boots, etc.) without argument - though not necessarily without complaint! - because a) he knows it’s important to people around him although he doesn’t always get why or to what degree, and b) it makes me happy. In return, I (as mentioned) don’t request it unless it’s really necessary, and compromise by letting him know the earliest acceptable moment to remove jacket/loosen tie/roll up sleeves, even though I like looking at him in his pristine finery.
As far as the argument that the thread’s derailed to, I agree firmly that if you accept an inviation somewhere, and then consciously decide to disregard the social mores of dress code and behaviour, in addition to your host’s stated wishes, you’re a jerk.
There are some people who honestly are incapable of living up to those mores - I have an uncle who came to my wedding in jeans and a sweatshirt, despite our semi-formal dress code, but we were okay with that, because he is a literal hermit and I know that leaving his home and driving two hundred kilometres to deal with a house full of almost a hundred people he didn’t know was probably one of the most difficult things he’s had to do in the last few decades.
But if you’re a socially ept adult who has no problem dealing with day-to-day interactions (unlike my uncle), and you choose not to in order to send some kind of message and mar someone else’s event, well, really I’d rather you just politely decline.
Dio was in my wedding party (he was my best man, in fact) and we had to plead and beg him not to wear sneakers. Finally his wife made him wear dress shoes. Now, nobody who knows my wife and I would call us narcissistic. We just didn’t want the wedding photos to look dumb.
There’s a balance between respecting guests and respecting the couple who’s blowing a few grand for a party and just want some nice photos.
The consensus on the other thread seems to be that most men, though not all, own a suit or slacks/jacket combo that could pass for one up to at least a semi-formal occasion. That seems to justify the assumption that the hosts would have that the majority of their guests would not have to go through the expense of buying a suit for their wedding.
I also have a totally different philosophy of being a guest than DtC has. I always felt it was “your house, your rules.” I wouldn’t smoke in someone’s house if they didn’t want me to, even though I’m the guest; if it were all about my comfort as a guest, that would be too bad for the host, right? I wouldn’t cuss if they don’t allow it, or wear my shoes indoors, etc. If they have a party and I’m invited, even if it’s not literally at their house, I’d still consider myself obliged to follow their stated requests for how the event should take place. That seems like good manners and common sense to me. To do otherwise would be showing contempt for the hospitality.
I can believe that someone wouldn’t know this instinctively, but if it’s pointed out to you and explained clearly and carefully, and you still persist in being rude? I think that’s classic “being a jerk.” Why would you want to be a jerk at someone else’s party?
Here’s another approach that might work, given that your SO is an academic. Point out to him that if he were an anthropologist living on a remote South Seas island and was invited by the natives to attend a “nooki-nooki” ceremony celebrating the changing of the seasons with a pig roast, you know darned well he’d be all over it, and the fact that he had to put blue and white paint on his face, wear a coconut bra and shell anklets, would not bother him at all. Instead, he’d be concerned about having the right kind of shells for his anklets and the right size coconuts for his bra, and does his blue paint work properly with his white paint?
Then point out to him that a wedding ceremony and a nooki-nooki ceremony are pretty much the same thing culturally speaking. The fact that you happen to be related to the natives in this instance is a minor matter, to the truly cosmopolitan. Tell him that if he attends the ceremony, properly attired, it will further his acceptance into the tribe and he will learn much that is of great interest to any academic, such as who is sleeping with who and who likes the fermented coconut milk too much. Plus, there will be all that roast pig to eat.
So, in the interest of closure, here’s what happened:
I went shopping for a dress yesterday. Got this dress at Nordstrom Rack - total cost with tax: $54.22; my cost after using a giftcard from Christmas: $4.22. Yeah, it’s a little on the dressy side for “cocktail”, veering into “formal”, but when you’re a size 20 and on a $5 budget, there’s only so much you can do, y’know?
So I came home flying high: this dress is gorgeous (looks much better on me than on the hanger - or even on that model, to be honest), works with a bra I already have that supports well (decoder for men and underendowed women: often the hardest part of choosing a dress for me isn’t the dress, but finding the undergarments in my size that work with it!) and did I mention I spent $4.22 on it? Anyhow, I got home and he said with a smile, “You know I’m not wearing a suit, right?” (Hey, did one of you send him a link to this thread? peers suspiciously)
“Well, that’s your choice, but I wish you’d reconsider,” I said. “Would you at least be willing to wear a sportcoat and tie?”
“I’ll wear a sportcoat.”
“…and tie?” I grinned. Thank the gods I was in a good mood - it made the whole conversation so much easier!
“I don’t think I own a tie.”
“I’d be happy to get you one.”
Non-committal grunt. Time out on the convo - time to get the sprout ready for bed.
Then, on my way upstairs to a friend’s apartment, I grabbed the picture from his brother’s wedding off the wall: “You know,” I said, handing him the picture. “You look really hot when you dress up.” and I winked and walked away.
Went upstairs, hung out a little and then tried on the dress with the right bra, and went back downstairs. “Ta-da!”
“You’re crazy, you know that, right?” He said.
I stuck out my tongue at him. I’m mature like that.
“You…look very nice.”
Giggle.
“You know, my sportcoat matches that dress…”
Uh-huh.
“Okay, let’s go look at it.” He went to the closet and pulled out a casual but okay sportcoat in beigeish pearlish indeterminate color. It really does coordinate with the dress well, except for the unfortunate grease stain on the lapel. Maybe the dry cleaners can get that out.
“What do you think,” I asked. “Navy pants? I have no idea how to do the sportcoat/pant thing.”
“Navy? I was thinking brown.” (Of course you were, dear, your entire closet is brown. Looks like the forest floor in there!) We went to the closet, where it was discovered that he doesn’t own pants above Dockers on the Dressy Scale. Then he goes back into worry mode, “But I have no time to get pants!”
“I can pick some up for you.”
"But then I’d have to try them on! And – "
“Well, I can either get half a dozen pairs at the thrift store and bring them home and you can try them on and we’ll just redonate what doesn’t fit, or I can go to the Christmas clearance sales, buy a few pairs and bring them home and take back what doesn’t fit.” He’s a pretty easy size to fit - that is, his size is a bitch to find, but when you find it, it fits; he doesn’t ever need alterations.
A few moments pass.
“You know, it’s not that I’m opposed to a suit. It’s just that I don’t have time to buy one…”
A kiss on the forehead. “I’ll take care of it.”
Run! Run while the battle’s won!
So there we are. It’s not a *promise *to wear a suit, but a chink in the armor. I think if I can find him something he likes will no time investment from him, he’ll wear it.
I love your dress! I hope you’ll eventually share a picture of the two of you at the wedding in dress and suit. After all, if dressing up requires this much work, there should be a record of it.
I’m not surprised.
Admittedly, I don’t know your husband. But it doesn’t surprise me that he doesn’t object so much to wearing a suit as he does to the effort involved in wearing a suit–given that he doesn’t already have one. No guarentees that this will translate into being willing to wear a suit to job interviews in time, but if the suit is in his closet, he might well decide he might as well wear it.
Good luck on your suit-buying adventures.
Whoa, that dress is incredible! I’m sure your husband could refuse you nothing once you had it on. I’m in awe of your shopping skills, as well.
The original price was over $180!!! Yay! Go, me!
WhyNot…that is an awesome dress! And good job with your husband. Nice work all 'round, I’d say.
Don’t forget to post pics after the event!
Wow – that dress is so sexy elegant, I’m surprised it survived his first view of you in it. Rrrrrrrrowwwrrrrrrrr!!
That’s it.
You’re buying all of my clothes for me, from now on.
Sounds like you’re dealing with “fear of shopping” rather than “fear of dressing up.”
Hubby realizes that he doesn’t want you wearing that dress if he’s not around. (It’s definitely the type of dress that will, ahem, show off your good points.) And he got the visual cue that he’d look better in an outfit that harmonizes with yours.