Of course, that’s true. It’s kinda annoying to be asked for a cite for something that everyone knows is true, isn’t it?
No, if ACORN creates a the siutuation in which their lax procedures encourage the person to submit fraudulent forms, then they have a responsibility when fraudulent forms are submitted.
Yes. A point made about six hundred times already, but I suppose 601 won’t hurt.
Correct.
It’s NOT standard for a national organization to have its state director also plead guilty to the same crime, actually. So… no.
Why do Americans need agencies like ACORN, anyway? On my tax returns every year is a checkbox consenting for Revenue Canada to share my name and address with Elections Canada. Sometime in the next few weeks, I expect to get a card telling me where and when to vote in the upcoming federal election. No fuss, no hassle…
I didn’t intend for you to actually search. I thought my request for a cite was, in context, clearly an effort to highlight other absurd requests for cites.
I agree that the law requires submission of all forms received. No actual cite is required.
Page two - I’m not going to quote because it’s non-copy/pasteable and I’m not going to retype the whole thing, but it clearly states that all completed and uncompleted forms are the property of the SOS and respective clerks and must be returned. That appears to apply to forms filled out with fake names. Also, it states that voter registration is incomplete till the information on the forms is verified. That also appears to apply to forms filled out with fake names.
It is the responsibility of the state, not the operators of the registration drives, to determine the validity of a voter registration form.
ETA: And yes, it’s wrong, not just illegal. I went to high school with a guy named Ronald McDonald. It would have been wrong for a voter registration guy to decide “That can’t be a real form” and throw it out.
Well then you know that ACORN had no choice about submitting the obviously bogus registrations, so what was your point in repeatedly stating that they submitted fraudulent forms, as if that made them guilty of something?
Also, your assertion in your OP that ACORN had “pled guilty to voter registration fraud” was false. ACORN pled guilty to no such thing.
Conservatives want to do everything possible to disenfranchise liberal voters. The poor tend to vote for liberal candidates. So, conservatives throw every possible roadblock they can manage to make it more difficult for the poor to register to vote. Something as simple and rational as your system is the last thing they want.
As a result organizations exist to canvas poor neighborhoods and get people registered to vote. Conservatives absolutely hate this.
They don’t concede it because it’s like mentioning the fact that my friend Steve regularly kills animals without saying that he’s a butcher. I don’t see anyone here unwilling to concede that ACORN submitted fraudulent registrations with the added fact that they did everything in their power to flag and prevent those registrations from going through.
I notice that you still haven’t addressed the wrong=/=illegal point that I, and a couple other posters have made. Funny, usually that’s your favorite tack in these type of threads. I guess such things are only important when they support your argument.
Not strictly fair. Bricker merely cited a reference to that esteemed paragon of truth and candor, Fox News. They said “voter registration fraud”, he merely reported that such a thing had been said, he did not specifically attach his name to such a charge, he merely let it stand without further explanation.
Perhaps it would have been more honest and forthcoming to declare such a distinction, but the **Ninja of Nitpick **moves in the shadows. The penumbras, if you will.
The most I’m willing to conced is that if this one office in Nevada violated the law in how they paid canvassers, then that was stupid, and I don’t know why they’d do it, but it’s a long way away from showing that did did anything “wrong” in the sense of deliberately corrupt or malicious, and it it still stands that ACORN was never found to have been involved in any wrongdoing (legal or otherwise) with regard to the O’Keefe videos or with regard to the conspiracies alleged by the right wing media that ACORN was involved with any attempt to defraud the election.
Voter registration is still a problem in Canada. My mother and her friends used to go out and canvas neighbourhoods to get people to register. They were {gasp} paid per registration by {gasp} the Government of Canada!
She also used to bitch that the neighbourhoods she was going to was full of “transients” that hadn’t lived there 3 months and hadn’t planned to live there 3 more. So at the end of the day she’d have no registration forms and hence no money.
Had she filled out a stack of forms THAT would have been voter registration fraud. She also would have been defrauding her employeer (in this case the Government of Canada).
Did the Government of Canada commit voter registration fraud? What they did certainly violated election laws in Nevada.
No. In fact, those words were a link to the web story of the same name, not my independent composition.
But to the extent I was defending it at all, I renounce it now. ACORN pled guilty to illegally compensating voter registration collectors, which is an election law violation. My OP was in error to suggest otherwise.
You mean like passing laws against fraud? What an interesting way of thinking. And by “interesting”, I mean “stupid”.
The only roadblock keeping poor people from registering in this case is the fact that ACORN is a bunch of crooks. If ACORN had managed to keep within the law, they could have gone on registering until the cows come home. But, they couldn’t.
Shodam, I am loathe to criticize a friendly voice.
But this is just as extreme as Dio’s “they’re all angels” claim, and just as wrong.
ACORN were not crooks. They may have had crooks in their employ, but as an organization, they were simply: (a) lax, and (b) do-gooders. Their motive was not to be crooked; it was to register low-income voters. They were earnest and zealous. In their zealousness, they cut corners. That was illegal and (I might argue elsewhere) wrong… but it doesn’t remotely rise to the level of “they’re all crooks.”
So – and I say this as a guy in a swamped lifeboat in this thread – stop helping. I can hardly slam Dio for his absolute stands and let this comment go by.