Let’s say I met some kind of hereditary noble. It’s extremely unlikely, but you never know, right? I’m aware that there are specific ways to address these sort of people that have to do with the occassion, your own status, and probably the phase of the moon for all I know.
Now, I don’t buy into the whole divine right thing. In fact I think it’s one hell of a good scam to have running for you, but a scam nonetheless. So, I couldn’t use terms which indicate deference to a superior life-form like “your majesty” or “your eminence”. Unless the noble in question could have me arrested or killed or something (if that were the case I’d call them anything they please, then run away).
For argument’s sake let’s use the queen of England. Could I get away with “Mrs. Windsor”, or “Ms. Queen”, or “Madame Queen”, or just “Ma’am” (I use that for pretty much all women anyways). What would happen? Is there some other title I could go with? I’m not trying to be rude, so “Queenie” or “Bess” would be right out. She seems like a pretty nice gal, but I’m not going to compromise my principals if we’re waiting for the same bus or something.
Even in the democratic United States, one is expected to address the President as “Mr. President”, at least until invited to drop the formality. I expect this sort of thing is typical. In Germany, however, the use of certain occupational or academic titles along with the honorific is more common generally, so to use it with a person’s official title is less distinctive. For example, one might say “Herr Doktor” to any male professor, so “Herr Bundeskanler” to address the chancellor doesn’t seem particularly distinctive.
In the “upstairs-downstairs” world portrayed in English fiction, how you addressed a member of the nobility depended on your relationship to him. If you were introduced socially to The Right Honorable Clarence, Earl of Emsworth, and his younger brother The Honourable Galahad Threepwood, you would address them directly as Lord Emsworth and Mr. Threepwood. You would do this in the same manner as you would call any John Doe Mr. Doe, with respect due any other citizen by the conventions of polite society, but you wouldn’t be expected to bow or grovel. On increasing familiarity, you might call them just “Emsworth” and “Threepwood”, and further, “Clarence” and “Gally”, just as you do with friends.
You wouldn’t be expected to bow or say “as your lordship pleases” or any of that rubbish. Only the butler and other household staff, broadly including any estate tenants would do that. Though with the latter I imagine there was some variation, as financially distressed aristocrats would rent out secondary houses on the estate to well-heeled burghers from London who weren’t about to call anyone mylord.
Formal ettiquette aside, though, nothing is actually legally required, though, is it? It’s not like they’re going to put you in jail, especially if you’re not even a subject.
Has anyone ever refused to go along with the protocol and just talked to the Queen like she was anybody else?
Alice Frazier hugged the Queen of England during a visit to the States. AFAIK, Ms. Frazier suffered no legal or other consequence.
I don’t believe Ms. Frazier was proving a point or anything; she apparently hugs everybody. Her Majesty took it better than she might have - she didn’t call in the SAS to make a tactical strike on the house or anything.
I don’t believe saying “Your Majesty” implies any superior status on her part. An American citizen is the social equal of anyone else on earth. It is her formal title for her job.
You don’t shake her hand unless she offers it first, but that is true of any lady.
My mother (who lives for this kind of thing) explained how it should work;[ul][]A gentleman is always presented to a lady, unless the gentleman is very old. Thus it would be “Your Majesty, this is my father, Hilbert Paunchbottom. Dad, this is Her Majesty the Queen of England”. Or “Great-grandpa, this is Her Majesty the Queen of England. Your Majesty, this is my great-grandfather, Wilferd Dustyfarts.”[]Same for ladies, except a younger lady is always presented to an older one. The Queen is, what, 80? Not many older than that. But the same formula would apply.[]An American citizen does not curtsey, nor bow, to the Queen. This includes the President. You owe her no duty of fealty. We fought a war over that. I believe Reagan was the one who won that battle with the Office of Protocol, who always tried to get the President to bow. []Try not to puke on the head of state. This is the Bush (Sr.) Doctrine.[/ul]
First off just let me say that I am royalty. Maybe not now, but several hundred, maybe a thousand years ago, my family was. What does that grant me? A cool last name
Also, the japanese are crazy about that sort of formality, they even have a specific language you’re supposed to use when addressing superiors, it’s called Keigo (and is confusing as hell. basically just the conjugations of everything are completely different). Also, in most cases (these days) it’s dependent on your status in relation to whomever you’re addressing. Bowing comes into that, too. You’re supposed to bow to different degrees depending upon whom you’re bowing to. Luckily I just play my gaijin (foreigner) card and, so long as I bow, no one really cares. they also stop speaking keigo at me after only the second or third completely blank stare of non-comprehension
[li]An American citizen does not curtsey, nor bow, to the Queen. This includes the President. You owe her no duty of fealty. We fought a war over that. I believe Reagan was the one who won that battle with the Office of Protocol, who always tried to get the President to bow.[/li][/QUOTE]
Just to be clear, bowing or curtseying to the Queen has nothing to do with fealty: it’s no more than a once-common formal greeting, that has become fossilized by protocol long after it’s passed from fashion in the rest of society.
By all means, should you ever meet the Queen, feel free not to bow: but let it be because it’s a foolish old tradition, or because you think you’d feel silly, or because you have a stiff neck. Please don’t make a political statement out of a simple matter of etiquette.
By the way, nitpick, there is no “Queen of England”, there has not been one since 1707, there is a Queen of the United Kingdom. Technically speaking there is no “England” it was abolished in 1707 and replaced withe Great Britain which itself was abolished in 1801 and replaced with the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, which renamed itself in 1927 to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
There is a legal judistriction of England and Wales, which comprises the territory of the former Kingdom of England as it existed on April 30 1707.
What about that other protocol rule, that you’re not supposed to speak to the Queen unless she addresses you first? If I were invited to a party at Windor Castle could I wander up to her an hour after the initial introduction and start up a conversation? Or do I have to wait again for her to speak first?
