Even though I think Nickrz is a dolt and CkDextHavn is a pig-headed donkey I have no complaints about them as moderators (or any of the other moderators really). They do their job.
If you want proffessionalism you can get it at a pay site. If they were banning people because of personal squabbles that’d be one thing, but you can’t expect them not to have any opinions.
Since this is the pit, and I’ve kept quiet about this for a long time, I feel I must finally contribute to this “moderator” debate.
If you don’t like the rules, GET THE FUCK OUT ALREADY!!
Oh, that feels so much better…I am sick to death of opening regular posts (not in the pit) and seeing cracks about how bad this board sucks, how bad the moderators treat people, “Don’t buy mugs or books”- give it a fucking rest already!
Guess what? Life isn’t fair, this isn’t a democracy, and you don’t have to stay. The moderators/management don’t owe you an explaination of ANYTHING whatsoever.
I think it’s a shame that moderators (in addition to keeping this board a nice place to visit) have to constantly justify what they’re doing and why.
The complainers have done exactly what you’re supposed to do when dissatisfied with a “service”. Complained, wrote to the management, and bitched out loud. The answer you got was to basically get over it or leave. So save us all the headache and make your choice. So don’t buy the merchandise or click on the banners. Whatever.
Grow up already, would you please? Get a hobby or something. You sound like a bunch of little kids complaining that your parents are “mean” or the teacher “hates you”.
Cripes.
Zette
(PS- this post was directed at NO ONE in particular- it was meant for all moderator complainers. I used a line from one of Melins posts from a MPSIMS thread, but that should not imply that this rant was about her. It was about all complainers)
My turn…My turn…I agree with both sides of this little argument. While at times, I was severly annoyed at C#3, I didn’t see the harm in what he did…as has been pointed out before, the same topic was in GQ for ages. But I do believe he went about it the wrong way.
I was once given a piece of advice from a Captain in the Navy. He told be that you can be right and an asshole, and you’ll still end up losing. Or you can be right, and plesant, and get your point across. From what I saw, I think this is what happened to C#3, he let his irritation get away from him and started in on the moderatore/admins.
To this date, I’ve never been called to the carpet by an admin or moderator, so I can’t say how I would feel about it if I truly thought I was right. But I’ll borrow TubaDiva’s analogy here…one of the rules we probably all observe is in resturants. Do you bitch and complain and insult your waiter? I certainly don’t, cause I know if I irritate him, there’s more of a chance something will go “wrong” with my order, or I’ll get “extra ingrediants”. The Admin’s and Mods are in charge…don’t piss them off. It’s really as simple as that. If they tell you you’re wrong, or to stop a type of behavior, shrug it off and go on. Don’t let it eat at you and fester untill you do nothing but tie up the board with posts about how “you were right and they were wrong”.
I will however say that I think that these types of decisions should be left to the Administrators. Again with the resturaunt analogy, would the CEO of a large chain be handling a dispute with one customer? Probably not. Ed, while I respect that you are trying to ride herd on this board, you undoubtedly have other responsibilities that take up your time. When you are called upon to make a decision, you don’t have the lesiur to read all the posts from a particular poster, or to browse every topic to see what discussions are like or if there have been similar situations. So you have to look at one small segment of the board, and make your decision from that. I submit that all those decision should be left to whoever you deem as “Senior Administrator” and back their decision.
Let’s all step back and appriciate the fact that we have a board like this to participate in. I enjoy reading the topics here, and debating with disenting views…wheather I agree with them or not. I like looking in GQ and learning a new fact, or expanding my knowledge about a topic. MPSIMS gives me a chance to look into other people’s lives, their likes, dislikes…what books they read…movies they like. And find kindred spirits in some areas. I don’t know about all of you, but have you ever tried to discuss some of the things on this board with your coworkers?..Most of mine still don’t know who Boo Radley is…(sigh). And the Pit gives us a place to vent…when work gets too intense, or your boss irritates you…or that driver during rush hour almost kills you…you can come here and shout/curse/scream your head off. And maybe find that sharing that anger with others helps ease the strain. We all have to abide by sometimes-arbitratry-seeming rules in our lives every day, can you not do so now, here?
Respectfully
Kris Kerr
Well, the OP wound up in the last of the forums I would have wanted it. But given the initial tone of the postings, I’m not really surprised. This, of course, could and probably will give an entirely new tangent to points and arguments that will be made. We’ll see where it leads, although I’m not overly optimistic. Surprise me, Dopers. Act civil in the Pit. Make it a first.
Tuba wrote:
Not so. I think this place definitely needs moderators and the ones we have, on the whole, are doing a fine job. The more so given the amount of the paycheck at the end of the month. And I do realize it’s not an easy job.
It’s just that a number of “incidents” in the past few months have created a certain malaise within the community and I thought the issue could be debated in a non confrontational manner. Bit of wishful thinking on my part, I guess. 
Ed wrote:
Semantics aside, if not a debate, how about an exchange of ideas? And comments were exactly what I was solliciting, in a way. Civil comments from all concerned, inasmuch as possible.
John John:
John, I don’t care that you’re here and I have already stated (twice) that as long as you play by the rules, you should not be banned.
However, this absurd coy game you play where you pretend not to be Cyberian54 (or Optamissed or any of your aliases) simply makes you look foolish. You have a very distinctive style of writing that is hard for any long-time poster to miss, you conduct yourself in the same way in all of your “debates,” and you have demonstrated more knowledge of who and what Cyb was than any new poster could possibly glean from the few comments that have been posted. (You also blew your cover big time on the ghost AOL/SDMB “general comments” area with a post revealing a viewpoint that only you have ever expressed.)
I really don’t care that you’re here (although I do wish that you would learn to actually read the posts to which you respond), but playing this little game is simply irritating. It’s like watching a fourth-grader claim to know something that no one else knows when they are actually less informed than the rest of the class. (In your response to SouldFrost, of course, you have now reversed your statement to Libby, and have now formally denied being Cyb.)
You can be John and you can be John John or you can come back as Twyla. I don’t really care. Denying history does not make anyone else forget it, however. Just behave yourself (and learn to read) and we’ll all get along fine.
Tom~
Phaedrus:
Wait, just so we’re clear, are you talking about:
–the post where you were going to destroy evolution;
–the post where you claim the KKK probably committed no crimes prior to the 1970s;
–the post where you say homeless people stink;
–the post where you talk about people who need to be dragged out and shot;
–or the post where you hate blacks and gays?
I just want to make sure we’re all on the same page, here.
Your enviousness is showing.
Shit, dude, don’t feel like you need to stay on our account. And don’t let the door hit you in the ass on your way out, either.
Unless, of course, you’re the one making the abusive comments.
Don’t some of you wish hypocrisy was toxic, or at least physically painful?
Headline in local newspaper: Following the rules can reduce heart attack risk
I just wanted to post that, you know, to be helpful.
(Ok, so the article talked about the rules of health advice, but still… 
)
My unsolicited 2¢:
(1) The powers that be on this board did not distinguish itself in handling a couple of incidents. They include:
The Melin Incident - While Melin was wrong, and was dealt with accordingly, the way the administrators handled the situation by refusing to divulge information which would have made us members rest easier, inconsistancies in initial postings and an overall confusion about the whole incident reeked of disorganization.
The Contestant #3 Incident - And the powers that be refused to learn from the earlier schizm by once again showing that the left hand was not talking to the right. The inconsistancies in rules and the selective enforcement of them, followed by the “Where’s Waldo” witch-hunt of other C#3 identities turned things into more of a joke.
(2) Since then, we are hearing about rules being rewritten. I say, why? Simply state in public when someone is being a problem, give them a chnce to atone to everyone’s (meaning mods and members) satisfaction, or kick them the hell out.
(3) The recent heavy-handed posts from Ed are not a good sign as far as I’m concerned.
(4) The way that moderators and administrators have acted through all of this has been decidedly anti-feedback. Many times, they come off arrogant and have pretty much flat-out told us peon posters that our opinions do not matter.
The SDMB is a wonderful place, and in fact it’s th only message board I visit.
Could it be better? Yes, but I think it would be better when (if?) the powers that be on this board stop thinking they are above us, and work with us to make this place better.
There will always be differing of opinions. But I don’t see how running this place like a police state can make things better. Lord knows, it ain’t worked yet…
And of course we are free to go if we don’t like the rules. But guess what? I would like to think we are also free to question the rules and the enforecement of them, and have those opinions maybe be worth a shit. I mean, I can call a manager at McDonalds and tell him there was a rat in my burger, and he’ll listen and address the problem, even if it’s only a rubber rat I brought in myself. Bad analogy, but I hope you understand my point.
Ultimately, the SDMB may be dependent on moderators and administrators, but you know what? I’ve been to boards that do not have any members, and they don’t work either, for obvious reasons.
I’m not holding my breath for commentary from the powers that be on the above opinions…
Yer pal,
Satan
You haff zeen vhat ve haff done with ze others…Now sign ze papers!
I’m going to post one message, not as a direct reply to anybody, and then probably not respond in this thread again (tho I won’t promise anything ).
Basically, in my 10 years or so of moderating message areas, I have found that a moderator will piss off approximately 50% of the people approximately 50% of the time, no matter what s/he does.
I had just typed out a long paragraph detailing some of how this has gone on here, but I realized that I could not do so without pointing fingers, and that is not what this message in intended to do. As such, I deleted it. Frankly, I don’t want to get into a “he-said/she-said” thing.
Instead, let me point to a case from Fidonet, the POLITICS conference, which I moderated for a number of years. There was a troll, Matt Giwer (that name may be familiar to some of you) who enjoyed pissing people off. He was a blatant anti-semite and Holocaust revisionist, among his more endearing traits. But he usually knew how far he could push it, and thus was allowed to stay on the conference. “Usually” is the key word. He was suspended for a month because he pushed too far by attacking other users with direct insults. When he was allowed back, I got complaints for allowing him back. He and his pals, of course, complained about his being suspended to begin with. A while later, he was suspended again, this time for 3 months. He claimed, in alt.revisionism, that I “banned” him because he had attacked a Jewish guy, and I was protecting my Jew pals. In fact, his temporary suspension (he was never permanently banned) was due to his attack on a completely different guy – a guy who was rather known to be an “enemy” of mine. When I sent this information to somebody for posting on alt.revisionism, Giwer never responded back – his bluff had been called and I had the mail messages to prove it (the exchange may still be available in some alt.revisionism archive somewhere). Meanwhile, in the POLITICS conference, the Jewish guy who Giwer claimed I was protecting ended up getting himself banned – permanently! (He was suspended first, but then used other BBSes to access the conference, which got himself permanently booted.) Frankly, there weren’t more than a few people banned the entire time I moderated the conference, but I always found it amusing that it happened such that these two involved ended up the way they did. Oh, and when I banned the Jewish guy, who was very liberal, his liberal friends all got very pissed at me, it not mattering that he had obviously violated the rules many times and been fairly warned over and over again. Like I said, 50% of the people, 50% of the time.
There will always be people who accuse the mods and admins of being nasty people. In general, the mods and admins will not respond. Sometimes, this makes us look worse. But in the end, I think it looks better than getting into a flame war (which has also happened).
Sure, we’re all human (well, ok, I’m a God, but for the moment I’ll pretend to be human ), and we all occasionally make mistakes. There seem to be some people who revel in pointing out the mistakes, or creating “mistakes” where none exist – especially when it comes to mods and admins. I’ve seen people like this the entire time I’ve been moderating message conferences. It is naive to think they will go away. They won’t. The key is in learning to deal with them. Ignoring them often works, though it can be very difficult to do if they are persistent. Responding to them may make things worse.
All in all, I guess it’s in the hands of the users themselves. We do the best we can, and certainly welcome comments (but will be rather less apt to take them seriously if they come in flame format). Remember, just because a suggestion is not followed does not mean it was ignored. There have been a number of suggestions that were tossed around and decided against, for whatever reasons.
Incidentally, if you, as a reader, look at this message and think I’m talking about you – I’m not. In 10 years, I can come up with so many examples of the types of things I’ve described here that it just isn’t funny. (Maybe one day I’ll explain how, in Fidonet, I had to chase a BBS System Operator all around Australia, banning and rebanning him, because he enjoyed spamming the conference I moderated with all sorts of crap.)
That said, if you do think I was talking about you, perhaps you might want to consider why you thought that.
To all the people whining about moderators on this and other threads:
I was gonna craft an entire flame, but instead I’ll just refer you to Zette’s fantastic post listed above. I couldn’t have phrased it any better.
Get a grip and a life, you twitchy bivalves.
Back off, man. I’m a scientist.
A lot of members - a few thou - haven’t weighed in with complaints, so I’m going to assume that most of the people who read and post to this board are happy with it. Some of the recent complaints have included good points, and a few, in my opinion, have been so off-base, unfair, and inaccurate that my response wouldn’t do any good, and could easily make things worse. I’m glad things are airing here, though, and I really hope it will all blow over soon so we can get back to the fun part - the Straight Dope.
The comments and discussion in the forum I moderate, “Comments on Cecil’s Columns” have been as entertaining, informative, witty, and humorous as ever. Even when it gets heated, people manage to mostly act like grown-ups. That makes my job easier, of course, and I’m trying to focus on the positive things that are happening here.
(Satan - watch for a coming Mailbag column that addresses the rumor that McDonalds’ hamburgers contain worm meat.)
Raising my complimentary Straight Dope Staff mug to the staff and TM,
JillGat
C’mere, man, I’m a scientist, too.
To be one of the Teeming Millions, do we have to join the Teemster’s Union?
Tomndebb
I think you need to give the obsession with this man, Cyberian, a break. Please post where I claimed to have ANY intimate knowledge about this person? Also, what post are you inventing on the AOL-SDMB that “blows my cover”? Produce what you are talking about. It would seem that YOU know more about this person than me. You really sound asinine when you take this syrupy, avuncular tone and talk down to people. “Now be a good little boy and play by my rules and I’ll let you stay. I don’t want you banned,just excoriated daily and stretched onthe rack” Really? What a guy!
Tom, you remind me of the little boy in back of the class that tells the teacher that he doesn’t like the lesson because it contradicts his delusions. You have demonstrated your inability to comprehend accurate data because it was the opposite of your long held, and wrongheaded, opinions. So, tom, why would I waste time in telling you that you are mistaken? You seem too comfortable in the dark.
“All rising to a great place is by a winding stair.” F.Bacon
Brille
----> <----
Dopeler effect:
The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly.
Er… Thanks? I think?
Yer pal,
Satan
Thanks, David B, for posting your views on the subject. Perhaps you can tell me what prompts a person to take a job that is that time consuming at no pay? You have done this for 10 years, as has TubaDiva I’m told, and have received zero salary? I find that astonishing. How about your share of the profits?
Ms. Diva says she does it for the fun. How about you? Playing schoolmarm to an adult message board seems an odd way to have fun, I venture.
“All rising to a great place is by a winding stair.” F.Bacon
Brille
John John,
Bwaahhahahahahahahahahaha!
(The post on AOL-SDMB was the one where you stated your personal view as to how AOL and SDMB separated. You are the only person who believes that fantasy (because it justifies a number of your views of the world). I don’t have an obsession with you, I just find your coy mendacity irritating.)
I probably do know more about you than you do, inasmuch as I actually pay attention to what you write and you seem unable to comprehend the meaning of your own statements. :::shrug:::
I am forced to talk down to you in an avuncular fashion for your own good; don’t take it personally. From my position, down is the only direction I can find you. I have never claimed that “I” would “let you stay.” The rules aren’t mine. That isn’t my job. Having watched you tear through multiple screen names for two years, invoking ire and disdain from all you meet, and since this site is capable of banishing people, I am simply offering you some pleasant advice. Your posting style is too distinctive for you to hide under a new alias for very long, so if you choose to get banned and return on multiple occasions, you will simply be setting yourself up for a lot of work. I certainly don’t want you excoriated or racked. Where could you ever get that idea?
You tried picking a fight with Tuba, here. Your actual post was not that inflammatory, but since you and she have a “history” it was certainly provocative. Denying who you are is simply silly.
Hey, I’ve offered you some advice. If you choose to take it, fine. If you choose not to take it, fine.
Tom~
tom
I swan! I have never been so insulted - back of wrist to farhead - in my entire life. Calling me mendacious is a cruelty equivalent to the rack. moan. My seconds will be calling upon you for redress of grievances at sun up.
Tom, tom, tom, what am I to do with you? You had a conversation with me about AOL, I have a history with Ms. Diva,-don’t think so- I picked a fight with her? SHE PICKED A FIGHT WITH ME BECAUSE SHE THOUGHT I WAS SOMEONE ELSE. Where do you get these fantasies?
I think you mean well, really, I do, but I think you do not have a firm grip on events. I will not stop you from wondering, could I? but you really should put this behind you and try to enjoy the forum.
“All rising to a great place is by a winding stair.” F.Bacon
Brille
Oh, no more odd than making posts to intentionally annoy and harass people.
There are more things in heaven and earth, John, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
And the fact that you would even ask a question like that proves that cyberspace does have a village idiot. You never got it and I guess you never will.
your humble TubaDiva