Are you referring to this quote:
It doesn’t say the more level roads lead to the same destination.
And catsix, please be more careful with your quote attributions. You’re confusing me with Rick.
No, a driver should not be excused from not being ready for whatever might happen on the roads.
But I live in the D.C. exurbs these days, and this area is famous for drivers not knowing how to handle sloppy winter weather, despite its happening every fucking year.
The fact is that, as a bicycle rider, there are places where I can’t count on cars being ready for me, no matter what the requirement. If I get crunched by a car on a road such as catsix and I are talking about, and my estate nails the driver for a hefty sum in a civil suit, that won’t exactly bring me back to life, but the driver will be held responsible.
I’m not driving. (Or at least, I’m not thinking about this from that POV.) I’m on the freakin’ bicycle.
No, but there are sure a lot of damned fools who do, and you know what? From my POV on the seat of a bicycle, it only takes one.
You were claiming it was routine. Dealing with bicycles is not routine at all for many drivers, especially those in a lot of rural areas.
OK, what’s your solution for getting all the bozos off the road who don’t meet your standards? Illuminate me. This ain’t a perfect world, and I can’t rely on perfect drivers. Your answer to that is that the crappy ones should turn in their licenses - but they won’t. That’s the limitation I’m working with here. Show me how you make it go away.
Posts. Plural. Going back two pages from here.
So there ya go. While I never counted the exact number of times, I’d guess it to be less than twenty or thirty times, and I’ve been driving on that road almost daily for well over a decade.
It’s maybe once or twice per summer, and no more.
My mistake. That one was Rick. It was still you who wanted to know when I said it was uncommon to see a bicycle on that road, right?
Who said it did? I don’t know about you but I’ll go out of my way to take the most level–and safer–route.
How is it an “alternate route” if it doesn’t get me to where I want/need to go?
None of your posts say cyclists have an alternative for getting to where they need/want to go.
No. I personally don’t see what that has to do with the issue. On any road, you should be driving in such a way that you can avoid unexpected obstacles on the road. That includes road debris, broken down cars, car accident scenes, farm equipment, slow trucks, and bicycles.
Actually, that was me. My first assumption would be, yes, that it’s the driver’s fault for going too fast and not paying attention. And this is me, speaking as someone who drives almost every day and has last sat on a bike, oh, maybe ten years ago.
Honestly, to me it seems like watching bicyclists (presumably following traffic laws) on a hilly, rural road is a piece of cake compared to the shit you see bicycle messengers do zipping in and out of traffic, going the wrong way on one way streets, going through lights, etc., in downtown Chicago.
In a case like cyclists in downtown Chicago, I’d be more inclined not to have the assumption of guilt side with the motorist. On a rural road, I’m having difficulty imagining a situation in which the law would decide the cyclist is the guilty party.
If that makes me “fucking deluded” (you sure have a way with words, girl), fine. I don’t understand what your problem is since I agree with your basic premise that a bicyclist is probably not being very prudent for driving on this road. However, I don’t think he’s being stupid because of his inability to handle his vehicle–I think he’s being stupid because others may not be as careful as he is.
However at least one of them did say that people out here don’t routinely bike to work.
Do you have any experience at all living in a rural area?
Then why the fuck did you ask?
And it doesn’t mean an accident will never happen, nor does it mean that the person driving the car is automatically at fault in an accident involving a bicycle.
There is no way to prevent every accident.
You’ve never been here, have you?
I’ve driven in major cities with lots of bicycles, and in the country where I live now, and bicycles are way easier to deal with in the city.
Would you find it reasonable for someone to walk down the middle of the lane on one of these rural two-lane highways?
Not every accident is the result of a driver who isn’t being careful. Accidents happen for a lot of reasons, and some of them aren’t possible to avoid no matter how hard you try.
The time I was in the back seat of the car that was rear ended, after we were hit, our car was propelled forward by the impact and stopped nearly a hundred feet later after hitting another car. Because the rear bumper was wrapped around the rear wheels, they never turned. The car actually slid that far.
Being careful is important, but it’s not a magic pill that stops all accidents from ever happening. And sometimes, being careful means that when you’re riding a bike, you don’t do it in places where you’re going to be a breathing roadblock that’s hard to see.
So yeah, I think you’re fucking deluded. You have unrealistic expectations of car drivers either achieving perfection or never driving, and don’t think bicycle riders have any duty at all to consider that there may be places where it is, for one reason or another, too damn dangerous for them to be.
No, but I’ve been on many bike rides in rural areas.
I don’t believe I did.
After Lute Skywatcher pointed out that you were defending your right to ride on a road that you yourself would avoid riding on.
You and lowbrass argued from the standpoint that bikes are ‘commonplace’ on roads, and when pointed out to you that not only had you yourself said in a previous thread that you avoid riding on roads such as the one I described, but that I’d said riding bicycles on this road is not at all common, you suddenly got very interested in where I pointed this out, as if to say I’d never mentioned that there are very few bicycles on that road.
When I showed you the numerous locations where I stated that, in fact, few people ride their bikes to work here, let alone on that particular road, you then claimed that it doesn’t matter anyway.
There’s a word for what you’re doing.
That word is ‘weaseling’.
I feel like you guys are gaming me here. I already said I agree that if route A is safer than route B, then you should take route A. What is it that you are imagining we disagree on?
Catsix keeps saying things like bicyclists who ride slower than traffic are “self-entitled assholes”. When I respond, then YOU jump on me with the unrelated argument that it’s better to use a safer route if you can. Well, no shit. That’s a strawman.
Why don’t you just let catsix fight his/her own battles without making up more reasonable positions and attributing them to catsix?
If you believe that bicyclists are “self-entitled assholes” because the car drivers on the road are bozos and can’t avoid hitting them, I disagree. If that’s not your contention, then we don’t disagree.
How is it not an “alternate route” if it can indirectly get you where you want/need to go?
Yeah, we’re fixated on it. Whatever you say. :rolleyes:
You could try asking what the speed is on those hills and curves instead of just assuming everyone flies by, hoping there’s nothing in the way on the other side.
I don’t believe that’s what I said at all, but if that’s what you divined from my words, okay. I don’t think driving carefully enough to react to a roadside obstruction is an “unrealistic expectation” by any stretch of the phrase, but obviously, YMMV. I will respectfully disagree with you and leave it at that.
I have assumed nothing. I am, in every case, responding to the posts of others.
Can it? And how indirectly?
Now you’re just trying to split hairs.
Then can you tell me who is in the habit of flying around blind corners and just hoping nothing’s in the way on the other side?
One last thing, and this is perhaps where our differences lay. Would it be reasonable? No. Would I say it’s my fault if I hit a pedestrian walking down the middle of the road with my car? In most cases, yes.