I’ve never thought of a cyclist on the sidewalk as “wimpy.” I consider it to be quite smart actually; I’ve rarely seen problems caused by them…except when my grandfather got ran over a few years ago and had to go through extensive reconstructive surgery 
Really? You were screaming about how horribly insulted you were that he made this strawman argument, but now that you admit it wasn’t a strawman, you say the issue is pointless? Didn’t seem pointless to you when you were whingeing about it.
Anybody stop to think about the locational disconnect here? For instance, where I live (Phoenix, AZ), there are bicycle lanes on almost every street busy enough to need them. I know for a fact that the same cannot be said of most areas in South Carolina.
I’d be much less comfortable riding without a bike lane, especially if there was an empty sidewalk 10 feet to my right.
I was, but that doesn’t mean that everybody would have. The road had a few curves, and usually was barely wide enough for 2 cars. It was post-rush hour traffic – busy enough that you usually had a car to the side of you, but not so busy that you couldn’t do 40 mph. All it takes is one person coming around a bend while answering the phone. They would have been far safer on the sidewalk.
What? Let’s go over this again. He made a statement I interpreted as an attack of an argument I did not make. Upon clarification, I realized it was a relatively benign declaration, which had little relevance to the conversation, imo.
So to summarize, as you seemingly require it, using a strawman fallacy absolutely provides something to take issue with, as opposed to an off-the-cuff statement, that bore little relevance to what I was stating, to which I concede.
With that cleared up, I would like for you to explain how my statement, “You seem to be attacking a strawman. Please point out to me where I denied your right to be on the street?” is somehow interpreted as “screaming” and me feeling "horribly insulted,"from your perspective?
A careful motorist is unlikely to injure anyone on the road. So where does this get us?
So your argument is that it’s correct to ride a bicycle on the sidewalk because the pedestrians you hit would probably only be injured and not killed?
Again, that’s a self centered argument. You’re saying that if you are a bicyclist, that although it’s less safe for pedestrians, it’s safer for you.
Not only is it a crummy argument, it’s not even TRUE. This site links to a survey which shows that “Riding on the sidewalk is several more times more dangerous than riding in the street.”
Survey url:
http://www.bicyclinglife.com/Library/Moritz2.htm
Fatal bicycle accidents aren’t as common as you think. There were 725 in 2004, as compared to over 100 fatal auto accidents every DAY.
Cars may seem big, noisy and scary to you, but you’re actually safer riding in the street where you’re supposed to, and if you follow the rules you’ll be fine.
Interesting that it seemed an important enough issue for you to raise in the first place, but not important enough for me to correct you on. :dubious:
There are multiple problems here, and I think that is what is causing the controversy.
[ul]
[li]Many drivers don’t believe that bicycles belong in the road (even though in many jurisdictions that is exactly where they belong).[/li][li]Many (most?) bicyclists know that they DO have the right to bicycle on the road regardless of the opinion of any given driver, however see below.[/li][li]Since many drivers don’t believe that bicycles belong in the road they refuse to take bicyclists into account when they are driving, and in some cases actively try to “discourage” those bicyclists.[/li][li]Many (most?) of the bicyclists that are on the road refuse to obey traffic laws (e.g. stop signs, one-way streets, traffic lights, etc.)[/li][li]Bicyclists seem to think that curb cuts at corners are made for them.[/li][/ul]
People (including me) for the most part bicycled on the road when I was growing up because that was before the time of curb cuts at almost all corners. There wasn’t mass carnage, even on busy streets.
Seems to me the only solution is stepped up advertising AND ENFORCEMENT. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a bicyclist get ticketed when a great many of them should be able to paper their walls with tickets given the number of laws they ignore. Equally, drivers should be ticketed a lot more strenuously for disregarding bicyclists under circumstances where bicyclists have a legal right to be where they are.
Absolutely, the police need to spend more resources stopping these dangerous criminals. J-walkers, people who drive 66mph on the highway, people engaging in deviate oral intercourse, bicyclists who don’t wait at red lights, and those bastards who read magazines and put them back on the rack. If the police aren’t going to do something, I say we take the law into our own hands and lynch them! Who’s with me!?
So basically, your argument boils down to: “Cyclists should not be allowed on the road because they often break the law.” Did I understand you correctly?
And hence the problem: people who believe that running a red light is as innocuous as reading a magazine in a store. I just don’t understand people who think the law doesn’t apply to them.
I don’t even know what this means? What do you mean by "not important enough for [you] to correct [me] on?
I conceded I appeared to be mistaken; what more do you want?
I’m still curious, though as to how you interpreted my “you seem to be attacking a strawman. Please point out to me where I denied your right to be on the street” statement as “screaming” and me feeling "horribly insulted,"from your perspective?
Until there’s a better alternative, the bikers in my part of the woods are a sufficient danger, imo, to warrant such an action.
Again, I’m talking about where I live, my frame of reference may not apply to your’s, and as such, our views may fundamentally be incompatible due to ignorance by virtue of geography.
Now let’s talk about that inattentive driver talking on the cell phone. Which do you think is more likely: that he fails to notice a cyclist directly ahead in his lane, or he fails to notice a cyclist about to come out of a sidewalk and into the intersection?
In other words, we shouldn’t give them a chance to break the law and endanger themselves? Would it not be better to just enforce those laws?
Based on my observation, a majority of drivers drive at unsafe speeds on rainy days. Would I be equally justified in calling for a ban on all automobile traffic on rainy days?
Of course you chose the magazine example rather than the others I posted. Let’s compare to jaywalking. Ever crossed the street against the red? I never said the law didn’t apply to me, but I’m not losing sleep over that particular misdemeanor.
WTF? Let’s go back and review the tape
(Bolding and sizing mine to help the memory impaired)
:dubious:
If the child was “following her was a child” I can only assume that if the lady was within hearing distance of your horn, so was the child.
Have you ever stood just in front a car and unexpectedly had some one hit the horn? Did it scare you, or make you jump, or flinch? Now imagine that you are a young child learning to ride a bike, and that happens just off your left ear.
In GQ or GD i would be perfectly civil, but we are in the pit baby. 
Have you ever heard the phrase about walking a mile in the other guys shoes? I ride a bike for recreation and the health benefits. I have probably increased my life expectancy by 25 years from the benefits. However having assholes coast up behind me then blow a 120 decibel horn as it comes even with my rear tire, throw trash at me, yell at me, hit me with the mirror of their truck, and dump me in the gutter when the cut me off to make a right turn has probably taken back 5 of those years. Oh yeah, beer cans, I forgot the flying beer cans.
I don’t know, maybe it is just a personality defect. After all of the above shit, I start to take comments like yours personally. :rolleyes:
There’s no need to patronize me.
It sounds as if you’re projecting your hate of those who have done the aforementioned offensive activities on to me. I try my hardest to be respectful of bicyclists; I slow down considerably and give ample room when passing, but that doesn’t nullify my opinions mentioned prior. So excuse me if I take offense when you lump me into the same group that intentionally harm/annoy you while on the street.
And excuse me for taking offense when you lump law-abiding cyclists with those who break the law, and stating that we should all be banned from riding on the road.
Many city roads, as I later clarified, in my neck of the woods at that.
If severely ramped up enforcement by the police can curtail that neglect of the law, I’d be down with that too, but I question its effectiveness given the rampant lack of respect for the law I witness from many bikers, again, in my area.