**
He did not talk over his grandmom. She talked over him.
The lesson is : You don’t speak while others are speaking. It’s called respect.
I would strongly disagree with this attitude. When you teach children that they need to be blindly obedient to adults, that sets up the expectation that when they become adults it will be their turn to be in charge. I’d certainly be frustrated and angry if I grew up with that expectation. I’m no developmental psychologist, though, so I’d be very interested to hear what a professional has to say.
The world is full of unfairness. Creating more unfairness to help teach people to deal with it is ridiculous to me.
You heard it somewhere years ago? Did you simply believe it because you heard it, or did you use your ability to think things through to figure out whether you should accept it or not?
What is your evidence that road rage is connected to a childhood in which one is rarely interrupted by adults?
Why do you think that acting unfairly toward a child will teach him patience? Isn’t it just as likely to do the opposite–to make the child think he must take what he wants when he wants since clearly no one can be trusted to take his desires or needs seriously?
Yes I did think it through and I chose to adapt it.
And no I don’t agree with you at all, we are talking about grandma, not anyone else. Of course the child had the right away in the conversation, but for thousands of years grandmothers have been respected right or wrong with no real damage to a child. I find this new way of thinking extremely distasteful.
The thread started with an anecdote about Grandma, but you have been explicitly making points about people in general, not just about Grandma–so to try to redirect things to Grandma now is not a legitimate move on your part. Do you stand by your general claims? Or do you now insist that you’re talking only about Grandma and are not making any more general claim about how people in general should treat children in general?
“No real damage to the child?” It takes a bit of arguing, at least, to show that there is no correlation between some negative psychological trait in people and those people’s having been taught to respect their grandmothers “right or wrong.” You claim there’s no such correlation. I claim it’s plausible there could be such a correlation. Unreasonable authoritarianism is a negative psychological trait, and being taught to respect grandma “right or wrong”* is likely to contribute, sometimes, to the development of an unreasonable authoritarianism.
*That’s the phrase you used, but of course everyone thinks people should respect others, usually, “right or wrong.” The question isn’t whether grandma should be respected, but whether what the kid did was in fact disrespectful. So where I put “respect grandma ‘right or wrong’” above, it may be best to read “refrain from questioning grandma’s actions, ‘right or wrong’”. If you think that’s the same thing as “respect” then there is something else we disagree about.
Well put sir.
Some people build up imaginary hierarchies in their heads and get off on forcing these on those around them. Most of us will blow off this inflated sense of self-worth, but they can force it on those over whom they have power. It’s no longer very acceptable to treat people like shit based on job, race, etc., but they can often demand deference from children because, well, that’s just the way it should be, and they deserve to be treated like they a are special because they’re just better for some unfathomable reason. Children have no power to do anything about it, and can be taught that they do not deserve to be treated in any other manner. It’s a self-correcting problem. Like many of our parents and grandparents who display uncomfortable views about some groups of people and their place in society, eventually most of them will die off and we’ll be slightly embarrassed about their behavior.
I agree, Ruken. Teaching kids they must respect everything any adult say is how some are exploited. Why would a healthy, strong little boy commit a sex act with a pudgy, wrinkly old man? Because he’s been taught that adults always know best and no one listens to little kids.
And in the meantime, the kids will not respect them, and you raise a generation of kids that don’t really have much respect for the parents that cut them off time and time again, and told them their opinions don’t matter.
The situation would also have a lot to do with the dynamics of the family involved. Was Grandma an occassional visitor? Did she live with them? Did the child have a habit of jumping into conversations? I have a 4 year old grandchild, when she starts talking we let her go a reasonably long time fully knowing she will go for ever. At some point we cut her off or try to engage her in something else. Some children are starved for the chance to express themselves because the parents are better at patronizing children instead of listening. When I raised my children we interacted with them daily at dinner, at breakfast, in the evening etc, there never was the feeling of needing to cut in. This conversation would have never taken place in my house.
At my mothers house we might have 20 grandchildren 10 great granchildren and adults would never be able to speak to one another if we stopped every time a youngster cut in, which is about 5 times a minute. I feel a family needs a heirarchy to have some semblance of order.
badger, the child very specifically did not jump into the conversation - he waited until the two grownups were silent. Whether he had or had not jumped into any conversations in the last 11 years was irrelevant to the specific situation described.
Or maybe the grandmother has a reading comprehension problem, so you feel sympathetic to her.
Why not try rereading the OP and then stop making stuff up.
Absolutely they deserve respect. If they aren’t shown respect and how to earn that respect, how will they ever learn when or how to respect others?
In that scenario, the grandmother was rude and the mother was out of line.
Respect, no.
COURTESY, yes.
What the grandmother did was discourteous (as well as being hypothetically disrespectful, if the object of her interruption had earned respect).
Children do deserve respect to the degree that the adult would expect respect. The children also must be respected for who they are so that respect may manifest itself differently then respect to adults, but should still be there. In the OP example the adult disrespected the child as I read it.
Why don’t you think children deserve respect?
Why don’t children deserve respect?
If everyone can’t be given a basic amount of respect for the sole reason of age, then this explains why kids can be disrespectful
Y’know, I actually like that distinction. I’m always a bit uncomfortable with the “deserve respect” notion anyhow. No one *deserves *respect, or respect loses its meaning. Respect is earned because you do something that causes me to respect you. Or it’s lost because you do something that makes me not respect you. Merely being old, or young, or breathing, is not something I particularly respect. Creating a fine piece of art, learning something despite a learning disability, leading others to do great things, standing up to your friends when they’re doing something wrong…these are some of the things I respect, and can be done at any age, and earn my respect regardless of age.
Everyone is due courtesy, yes. But respect is earned, and *due *no one.
This is just nitpicking over words; you can go back over the thread and change every use of the word “respect” to “courtesy” and not one bit of meaning would change.
I disagree heartily with that, WhyNot. Everyone ought to be treated with respect, including kids so that they may learn by example. They can earn privileges, privacy, allowance… but kids are in no position to prove something they are in the process of learning. Were your kids ever treated in a disrespectful manner by a teacher, step parent, or other authority figure?