I usually extend a courtesy to those in generations older than mine. I think nothing of calling older men “sir” and older women “ma’am.” Conversely, I do not extend the same to members of my generation and those younger.
I did this in front of said friend and he asked why I did this. I replied that I thought it shows good character to respect your elders moreso than those equal or younger than you. He disagreed. He believed that showing everyone the same amount is respect was fine and didn’t understand why elders have earned such recognition based simply on their age. He contended that assholes do not deserve to be called “sir” and sometimes older people are assholes. Which, clearly, is true.
What do you think? Do you think this is important ether way?
This is one of those questions that really depends on how you define “respect”. Is it a certain formality? Is it not contradicting them? Is is holding doors? is it obeying their every wish?
I think it’s very odd not to call any adult “sir” or “ma’am”: how do you address people whose names you don’t know? “You there”?
I think it’s important to treat all people with respect, and nothing alienates me faster than a co-worker who is dismisive of me or my concerns because of my age. On the other hand, I tend to call much older co-workers “Mr.” or “Mrs.” until I have established some sort of relationship with them, whereas younger co-workers are called by their first ame (or just their last name) almost at once. Of course, I teach, so the Mr./Mrs. form of address is pretty common in general.
I agree with you 100%. And I was just thinking about this topicthis morning.
The same goes with family IMHO.
Just because a person is a cousin or an uncle dosen’t mean that I will automaticaly respect them. Mind you, I will always give the benefit of the doubt first, and sure, being a family member mean I will be more friendly than normal.
But if they are assholes, I will reciprocate the attitude.
“Respect” is a funny word. When people say “treat others with respect”, to me that really means “treat others with courtesy”, and of course everyone should be treated with courtesy.
Likewise, when people say that “respect has to be earned”, I find that those people are the ones who feel that *courtesy * has to be earned. Those people are wrong. *And * they’re assholes. **Real ** respect has to be earned, but Respect/Courtesy should be the default. It’s disrespect (or discourtesy) that should need to be earned.
Now, when you ask me if I *actually * respect someone, that’s a whole different question than whether I should *treat * them with “respect”. If I feel that a person is worthy of my honest-to-god, ‘I admire and seek to emulate this person’ respect, I’m going to treat them with much more than courtesy.
As for the age question, I don’t respect the elderly especially, because simply aging is no admirable feat, but they are entitled to some special consideration, and if I’m deciding if I actually respect them, they do have a longer track record for judging.
What he said. Having worked in Florida, I’ve met far too many elderly customers who were far too big of a pain in my ass to start respecting people just because they could be more wise than me right off the bat. Many old people are bitter, stubborn, selfish, and stuck in their ways. Some will tell you the way things oughta be and the way YOU should do YOUR job just because they feel they’re entitled to getting their way.
So no. Just like anyone else, if an older person wants my respect, they’re going to have to prove they’re deserving of it.
Very well said, DianaG! I was raised to be courteous to those older than me, and I still use “yes sir” and “no, ma’am” with people I don’t know regardless of age.
I try to be courteous to everyone I come in contact with, regardless of age. I have been in the postition of being courteous of people I had absolutely no respect for. I am one of those who automatically “respects” others unless they have done something to make me no longer respect them. However, I don’t think because I don’t respect someone it means I can just be rude to them.
I was raised with a heaping helping of ‘respeck yur elders’ and while I don’t indoctrinate my offspring with quite as much of the same attitude, I have taught him that a modicum of respect is to be granted until proven otherwise. The idea that they’ve lived that long probably means they’ve learned a few things, with age comes wisdom blah blah, and as adults we know that isn’t always true but from a child’s perspective the random older person is still smarter and due some respect.
If and when they show themselves to be morons or whatever, they still get basic courtesy because that’s more about who’s extending it than who deserves it, IMO.
In the old days, it was far more common to call people “sir” or “ma’am” than it is nowadays. It was also more common to address them as “Mr. Lastname” rather than “Firstname.” (Things like this also vary according to what part of the country or what part of the world someone’s from.) By addressing older people as “sir” or “ma’am,” you aren’t necessarily showing them more respect than a younger person; you’re just treating them the way they grew up to learn than common courtesy requires. In a sense, people of different generations come from different cultures, almost as if they had moved here from different parts of the world.
True, but I would never assume, ahead of time, that someone was an asshole, until they had given me some evidence.
I believe that part of respect is giving people the benefit of the doubt that they are worthy of respect, until they show you otherwise.
And the older a person is, the more potentially worthy of respect they are, because the more chance they’ve had to “pay their dues” and do things that make them worthy of respect.
Well put, DianaG. I treat everyone with courtesy (well, I try to) and older people get some extra courtesy – they will get an offer of my seat on the bus (likewise for injured people or pregnant ladies), for example.
I call a lot of people “sir” and “ma’am” and “Mr.” and “Ms” anyway – even people younger than I am. I work at a college and like to get a lot of Mr. and Ms in when I am interacting with students in a professional setting, because I have the (possibly unrealistic) hope that it will normalize the use of honorifics.
If I don’t respect you, you probably won’t notice it right off the bat, because I will still treat you with the baseline courtesy, and try to avoid you as much as possible.
What DianaG said. I grew up in a household (and in my later years, in a society) where respect for your elders was literally beaten into me (not by my parents so much, more my teachers in Korea). Ironically it made me realize how stupid it was to respect people based solely on their age - and in Korea you are supposed to be respectful to people older than you whether the age difference is a year or 50 years. Which is just silly. But old habits die hard, so I end up doing random things like giving up my bus seat for an elderly person, or letting them go ahead of me in a queue. Basically I treat them the way I’d treat my own grandmother, I suppose, until they give me reason to do otherwise.
This is exactly what I came into the thread to say. I will add that “respect” implies a degree of intimacy that isn’t necessarily possible to share with everyone.
I think courtesy is essential, because it makes the world a better place, and as a bonus, it is an indicator of virtue and good character. Nothing is more classy than someone who is able to be gracious, even in the face of rudeness. People sometimes equate politeness and tolerance with being a doormat, but I have found that being courteous can do the opposite - it creates a boundary between yourself and someone who is trying to get a rise out of you or provoke a reaction, so you can let it roll off your back and continue on with your own business.
Sorry… wandered off topic… back on topic: Being alive for x number of years shouldn’t automatically bestow a right to “respect”. That’s an outdated idea, and I think society is all the better for having got over it.
While courtesy is the most obvious form of respect, another form, and what I think is more often the issue when dealing with “elders” is deference. All things being equal, should one defer to the judgement of one’s elders? This is a much more difficult question, because there is undoubtably some wisdom in it: regardless of chronological age, I am much more likely to defer to the judgement of coworkers if they are more experienced than I, and I get annoyed at coworkers who seem to expect me to defer when I am the one with more experience. This isn’t to say I won’t argue a point–I will, and quite assertively–but if an impasse is reached and no one is willing to concede, I am comfortable with the idea that the person with hte most relevant experience gets to decide. If the “relevant experience” is just life, then that would be the oldest person.
On the other hand, someone can be an old idiot, and if there is evidence to that effect, then I am certainly not going to defer to them.
I have fewer and fewer elders as time goes by. And the older I get, the more respect I have for the wisdom that generally comes with experience, a byproduct of age.
It doesn’t matter a fig to me whether younguns respect me or not, but I do appreciate when they show respect.
As someone who is getting up there himself, I agree with you completely. A young jerk is more than likely going to be an elderly jerk, from my experience. I wouldn’t give a fig for a lot of the “wisdom” I’ve encountered from some older folks.
No. Someone who’s old can be senile, or ignorant, or a jerk, or a loon, or just plain nasty. I do tend to give the elderly extra consideration physically, like holding doors open for them and such if they are behind be and such ( unless I know they personally fall into the jerk et al catagory ). I wouldn’t call that respect, however.
When I moved to St. Petersburg (also known as “God’s waiting room”), I was suddenly surrounded by far more elderly people than I had been in my hometown. I used to get impatient when it took them twenty minutes to pay for their three items at the checkout, or call me at work and ask inane questions, or simply talk on and on because they’re lonely. I’m not sure when or how my mindset changed but today I treat older folks the way that I would want my father to be treated.
I’m fuzzy on the distinction between ‘respect’ and ‘courtesy’, but in general I try to be courteous to everyone until they demonstrate they deserve otherwise. Often I’ll still continue just to demonstrate to any witnesses that they deserve otherwise.
As for elders, I’ll give my seat to elderly people on the train, and I don’t lose my patience with elderly people who are slow, distracted or confused nearly as quickly as I would with someone my age. Being just a few years older than me, however, gets no special treatment.
I’ll give extra weight to the advice of someone with more experience than me, although I’ll freely disagree when I think they’re wrong. That’s respect for experience, however, not age; I’d show the same regard for the advice of someone younger if they’d done something I haven’t.
