But you don’t know she’s lying.
This is pretty much saying she is lying for money. I don’t if that’s ‘attacking’, but it does discourage victims from coming forward.
Unproductive judging isn’t the point. Pinpointing root causes and ameliorating them is the point.
When a crash occurs, you look for the reason why, and ask whether the cause was isolated or whether it is reflective of a broader problem we should address. You are suggesting that, for the two 737 Max planes that crashed in Indonesia and Ethiopia, we say, “gosh, looks like it was a software problem on that airplane. Oh well. We found the cause, so we’re done!”
No. You ask what to do about all the Max 737s still flying. More broadly, you consider whether the culture inside Boeing and its relationship with regulatory agencies created an environment, where a crash - as blessedly rare as that may be - is of heightened probability due to factors that you can and should take steps to mitigate.
.
This is all true, but that is not the context in which I used the metaphor in which you can’t judge culture by its crashes.
Andy produced this horrible incident he cited as an example of rape culture. A word he used to describe this was “normal.” I pointed out that this was not normal. What he was doing was cherry picking and was as logically unsound as pointing to an air crash as evidence that air travel was generally unsafe when in fact it is the safest way to travel. That was the context in which I said you can’t judge a culture by its crashes. The fact that the crashes occur does not mean the culture is causing them just as the crashes in air travel do not demonstrate that air travel is unsafe.
If you look at my post on his cite that I also agree that it is very important to try to figure out the causes, and to consider what can be done better. I suggest several possibilities as to what might have caused and contributed to it.
I suggest the boy might be a little Ted Bundy and he horrified his friends by sharing a video, or conversely that his friends thought it was funny or cool (which would be a cultural problem within the boys social group, conceding that as a possibility but pointing out we don’t have enough information to make a conclusion.). I suggest that there was a failure in adult supervision and adults that allow drinking parties in their houses, and allow children to get dangerously inebriated should be held accountable. I suggest this could be a teachable moment in educating girls about protecting themselves, etc. etc.
I did not say and am not suggesting that we take an “oh well these things happen” attitude all. In fact, I think it is a pretty clear that I was endorsing the same sort of process you describe of dissecting the incident to find its causes and prevent such things in the future to the extent possible.
I actually believe we are in total agreement.
Cairocarol:
That was not what I was suggesting. You will note that I pointed out that we don’t know what caused or contributed to this boy doing what he did.
There is no “software problem” that we have identified.
If you can tell me what caused this boy to rape this girl and we could do something with this knowledge to prevent a repeat of this type of thing, I would be behind it. You should see that I tried to do exactly that.
Maybe it does discourage victims from coming forward. Is there any way to question any of the aspects of an accuser’s story that doesn’t?
Does “taking an accusation seriously” mean that we shouldn’t ask about any of the parts that are unproven, or don’t back up the accusation?
Regards,
Shodan
Does asserting “She’s just making this up to sell books” fall under the definition of “questioning aspects of an accuser’s story”?
No.
Does “taking an accusation seriously” mean that we shouldn’t ask about any of the parts that are unproven, or don’t back up the accusation?
Regards,
Shodan
Agreed. This is not a court of law. This is being tried in the court of public opinion (intentionally, I believe). Given that, it’s entirely appropriate to form opinions based on not just the words and public behavior of the accuser but on the words and behavior of the accused in response to the accusations as well.
No, of course not. Taking the accusations seriously involves investigating them.
Why do you feel like this is only being tried in the court of public opinion?
And in your opinion, is that enough to have someone lose a job, lose a social status (marriage) , or lose a political appointment?
I finally “sacked up,” to use a term that’s rooted in patriarchy – and, hey, I’ll say it, rape culture, which is a thing – and skimmed through this thread’s comments since my last reading/post. Which was here: https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21723152&postcount=167
I’m impressed to see many people on the SDMB still fighting the good fight on behalf of victims of sexual violence. I am not surprised that many other people on the SDMB are questioning victims’ honesty, and engaging in increasingly picayune goalpost-moving to do so. THat is, frankly, what I expected when I first saw this thread.
It’s a lot different to see it actually happen than to predict it’ll happen, though. Different as in worse.
Right now I don’t plan on coming back – to this thread or to the SDMB as a whole. Which is a shame – I liked it here while I was here. I’d like to think I occasionally contributed something, but I learned much more than I ever taught.
But the trolls did their jobs, and kudos to them I guess. Have fun second-guessing sexual assault victims, guys.
And best of luck to the rest of you as you argue with them. I’m just done trying or watching others try, for now at least. Maybe I’ll check back in a month and see if anything’s changed.
Not sure which thread to put this in, or start another, but yet another sexual assault allegation against Trump, this time by Karen Johnson:
Trump bragged about sexually assaulting women. Multiple women have corroborated his bragging as factually accurate, even in the very specific way in which Trump described the way he sexually assaults women.
E Jean Carroll is suing Trump for defamation.
The only thing to say, other than “good for her,” is that each additional lawsuit is another strong reason for Trump to fight ever louder and dirtier. He’s facing a mountain of charges that will land on him the day he leaves office. Is there any reasonable probability left that he won’t spend the rest of his life in jail? Assuming he is not convicted by the Senate, he absolutely needs to win the 2020 election to postpone that fate and he obviously is capable of doing absolutely anything to stay unindictable.
Alex Beckel, son of Leland Keyser, started a Go Fund Me page. As you recall, Christine Blasey Ford claimed Ms. Keyser was at the party where Kavanaugh allegedly assaulted her. Ms. Keyser denied ever being at such a party. Mr. Beckel say there was pressure for her to say something other than the truth. Why isn’t there an investigation into witness tampering and intimidation? Why hasn’t Ms. Ford helped Ms. Keyser with all of that money she raised?
"Nearly a year after Trump nominated Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court, most have moved on. But for one of the key players in that fight, Leland Keyser, the struggle continues.** Despite her lifelong friendship with Christine Blasey Ford and her opposition to Brett Kavanaugh’s nomination, Keyser resisted immense personal pressure and courageously came forward with the truth, putting everything in her life at risk.** As a result, she faces great personal hardship. The harsh glare of the public eye has taken a tremendous physical, emotional, and financial toll on her. The purpose of this GoFundMe is to help her deal with mounting medical and legal bills and to help redress the many grievances she faces as a result of her commitment to principle and the law. Leland stood up and did what was right when she had everything to lose and nothing to gain. Now it is our turn to stand up and help her in return.
LAZombie-
Please don’t link to fundraisers on the SDMB without clearing it with the moderation staff, please.
I know it’s just sickening how Trump supporters won’t do anything. It brings back memories of Clinton supporters who did nothing when old Bill raped several women.
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
I’m only familiar with one woman who made such a claim - Juanita Broddrick. Who were the others?
Tweet!
Attempt at derailment. 15 yards.
Keep Bill out of this. Start a thread on him if you’d like. You’re more than free to do so.
Another decades-old unsubstantiated allegation against a celebrity with no witnesses, no DNA evidence, and presumably beyond the statute of limitations? I doubt we’re going to do anything.