I can relate to all of that.
It strikes me that your wife is entitled. There’s nothing you can to change her (that’s, of course, true regardless of whatever behavior is destroying your marriage).
I got lucky and my wife decided to change to save the marriage.
But all you can do is decide to stay in or leave. If it were me, I’d leave.
Agreed on all counts, except that cherry-picking in rebuttal to cherry-picking is totally justified. 
If I were reading and relying on the studies you cited as potential divorcee, the thing I would be asking myself as a parent is whether the kids know about the problems in the marriage. If so, that seems to qualify as high-conflict. If not, and if divorce were inevitable anyway, then the course of action would seem to be making sure it does not just get sprung on the kids as a surprise. They deserve to know that you fought to make it work and at least some part of how much it did not work.
I’m sure you know this already, but make sure you tell your kids over and over that none of this is their fault.
Good luck to you, whatever you choose to do.
When I divorced my kids were fairly little (7 and 4) We weren’t necessarily high conflict, but she had made up her mind - she wanted out, and nothing was going to change that. We had a prenup, but as my kids live with her I pay well above the child support as determined by PA’s guidelines, and in the split I let her have pretty much whatever she demanded. Life’s too short to fight over stuff - but that attitude does make it more expensive.
I’m much, much happier now than I was for most of my marriage. It is not until you are out of it that you see what all you put up with that you shouldn’t. I think my kids are not better off and that they would’ve been better off had we stayed together - they would have had a more balanced upbringing. I have them every weekend (and a number of whole weeks through the year), but it is not the same as being part of their every-day weekday life.
Some things to keep in mind:
Don’t start dating until you’ve been divorced at least a year. Better for you, better for everyone else. You’re not ready beforehand, no matter what you think.
Nothing is fair in a divorce, nor reasonable, Try and minimize the monetary damage. Nobody will recognize it if you are a good guy, and for sure no one will remember it. You will not get validation of any kind.
Long term is more important than current. Meaning - trade current assets for less future costs. You are going to take a hit no matter what, but it’s easier to start over if you don’t have 20 years of payments around your neck.
You need an attorney. However, while you really need an attorney, you also need to make sure they don’t clean you out. They can get expensive in a hurry. Never be in a meeting with multiple attorneys - ask whichever one who doesn’t have the answer to leave - if they both have the answer ask why it takes two. It makes no sense to spend 30 grand in attorney fees to maybe save 30 grand in the split. Frankly, it doesn’t make sense to me to spend 30 grand even to save a possible 50 in the split. This doesn’t mean that you don’t start by asking for this - it means don’t dig your heels in out of “principle”. If it did indeed go to court, you hung on too long - ideally you figure out the money in conference/mediation.
Fight for as much custody as you can get. Not all time is the same - the details of the time are as important as the amount. Especially when they’re little, see them as frequently as possible. If you can’t agree to the custody, it’s worth fighting it out in court. Time with your kids is the only thing you can never make more of. I don’t begrudge any cent I spent on court to get as much custody as I got.
You will hear accusations that can be very upsetting because they are so unfair. You have to let that go. Again, there is no validation, no recognition of the value you add. Let it go. The divorce is about money and custody. Not right and wrong.
Just because my life got better after divorce doesn’t necessarily mean yours will, unfortunately. I fought hard to not divorce - counseling, willing to relocate to placate my spouse at the cost of my career, and other things I choose not to disclose. But she would not budge. If not for that, I would feel a lot more guilt, especially regarding my kids.
If a wife is yelling at a husband and he offers no resistance, there’s technically no “fighting.”
It’s still an intolerable situation, though.
I can’t bear to read the whole thread. I’ve been separated from a psycho-bitch for 2 years now.
Yeah, don’t judge me. I could write novels of what she did, and is still doing. My daughter (17) hates her. Seriously hates her. And she’s the custodial parent. Fun times.
Wanted to update this thread:
The Wife and I did try marriage counseling and it seemed to help initially but things went back to normal after a little while. We aren’t divorced yet, but my Wife has filed and left with the kids.
Honestly I think us being divorced is probably for the best as far as the two of us is concerned I don’t even feel sad about that aspect. But not being able to see my kids every day is crushingly depressing, I can’t stop ruminating about it, I would never do it but sometimes I sit there and fantasize about suicide. No matter if I’m in a good mood or doing something fun if my thoughts turn to my children I feel like I just got the wind knocked out of me. My children are still very young and I just feel like no matter how much I visit them, spend time with them that it will never be the same, that the relationship has been permanently altered, that the parent-child bond will never be as strong, I feel like my soul is being sucked out of me…
pool - I’m sorry to hear you’re in such a bad place right now. As I read through this thread without realizing that it was a zombie, I was planning to suggest that even if your wife wasn’t willing to try therapy, you should go on your own to try to deal with your own issues. Even though you ultimately did try marriage counseling, from reading your update, I still think you should find a therapist to help you adjust to your new circumstances. Even if your depression is situational, a therapist can provide valuable insights and help you work your way through it. I really hope things get better for you.
I have been through the same thing and believe me, it will get better as long as you try to be a good parent over time. I don’t want to go on a misogynist rant but I will a little here because it is applicable. Women, mothers in particular, tend to be hyper-aggressive during divorce because they know that divorce courts favor them but it won’t last.
My ex-wife and I barely made it a few weeks before she was begging me to take the kids any time I could because she bit off way more than she could chew. It was all about power and retribution and all I had to do was wait until she realized that was a dumb strategy that she couldn’t sustain. We have maintained that to this day and always will.
The other thing I learned is to play hardball. You won’t be married anymore so the relationship changes from a spouse to a semi-adversarial partner. She often calls me out of the blue and asked me to alter my plans so that she can do something with her friends and I have said no many times just because I don’t have to. I have also been strict on financial arrangements unless it is a direct payment for something like summer camp that I know one of my kids really wants. I will do anything for my kids but she is not getting any direct benefit from it. Believe me, my kids have never hurt for anything since the pregnancy tests came back positive.
Don’t get me wrong, my ex-inlaws still love me and I go to all major holidays at their houses and I even stay over at my old house sometimes when she is away but I do not allow my ex-wife to abuse me anymore. We had a couple of huge blowups when we first got divorced but now, it is mainly about her being pissy and knowing that I can hang up the phone or walk away if she talks to me like she continues to do with other people.
You have to draw the line and a keep a long stick’s distance. I went so far as to buy a place with limited access and security on my own because I was truly scared of her at one point. It isn’t that bad anymore but I always make sure there is at least one other adult in the room when we are together in case the psycho kicks in again.
I was very broke at first after the divorce but I put together a solid plan and executed it. My net worth and finances have skyrocketed in the last eight years because I don’t have to pay for a constant stream of unnecessary household upgrades, fake crisises and $700 pairs of shoes.
Most importantly, I have my freedom back. I look at it just like the Emancipation Proclamation. Sure it is confusing at first but most divorces are a good thing overall. I can go anywhere I want with whoever and do anything I want I want and never get “in trouble” for it. That is what it means to be brave enough to break out of slavery under another name. I also get to have my kids as much as we want without the omnipresent threat of a simmering parental fight breaking out yet again.
No advice (my divorce was years ago, mutual and he did not want custody…nor did he ever pay child support, but that’s another story).
Just popping in to wish you the very best!
kam
Oh, goody.
No, it ain’t applicable.
pool, as the child of divorce, I implore you not to take Shag’s advice to turn it into semi-adversarial bullshit.
As for the therapy: dude, you’re fantasizing about suicide. Klaxons are going off. Make an appointment! If not for yourself, for your kids: they desperately need you to pull yourself together, now more than ever.
I am the child of divorce too plus almost record numbers in my family. We are really good at it but I got the best results out of any of them. You have to stand up to ex-wive’s or they will run all over you. Your only responsibility is continue to be the best parent you can be and everything else will take care of itself. You no longer have any responsibility to your ex-spouse (although you can volunteer to in some circumstances).
Spouses are disposable and always have the potential to unilaterally screw you over - kids are life-long. Don’t ever be a cuckhold for a stagnant well. This advise probably plays out very different in reality than you are imaging. My ex-wife is a very wealthy corporate VP that is used to ordering everyone around and having them jump when she says so. I simply won’t do it anymore. All I care about is my daughters.
There is no way she is going to hit me, break my ribs while I am sleeping or emotionally abuse any of us like before on my watch. I play nice and her family appreciates it. Sometimes the woman is not always right.
“My situation is analogous to every other situation ever!”
You can fight this. It is in no way acceptable for your wife to take the children away from their home. Find an attorney and file an emergency request for a temporary restraining order today. Don’t wait. Do it immediately. You have to start asserting your rights or you risk losing them.
As someone who has been married for like a hundred years we have reached those type of low points more than once. I think nearly everyone does, sooner or later.
I’m sorry but my feeling from what I read is that y’all are giving up too easily. You went to marriage counseling for a while and it worked but then it stopped working… In other words, you left in the middle of your treatment rather than keep working for it when it was actually showing signs of succeeding.
Why not go back to marriage counseling, by yourself, then see if she will join you. Perhaps being apart will make you both appreciate what you have and get rid of that tempting but probably false illusion that everything will be great once you get rid of the big problem (each other). Chances are you will hit a wall sooner or later with the new partners too.
If nothing else, divorce really sucks for the kids. With most of the people I’ve seen who are divorced, I have not seen the big great new life later. For one thing, they are starting out with more stacked against them (kids by someone else, and all that responsibility). For another thing, in my opinion, most of them have not learned good skills to keep a relationship on track or get it back on track when Life Intervenes.
Just my thoughts, from what I’ve read here. Best wishes.
P.S. If she is angry all the time, there’s a reason and that reason needs to be figured out and dealt with. Even if you escape it, your children might not.
In any case, I think most couples really do not have enough to bother fighting over and fighting over the kids- well, you could picture that as each of you grabbing a limb and pulling them apart. Keep it nice.
I have no advice on the business of getting divorced: the only divorce I’ve been reasonably close to was my parents’, which is not exactly an example to emulate.
But pool, your need for divorce is unquestionable. There’s nothing that can be done to save this marriage. Because the two necessary conditions for a marriage to be viable are:
Clearly your values regarding money vastly different, and there’s no way you can trust a spouse who makes an enormous purchase like that $40K car without consulting you. Sorry this love story has gone all wrong for you, but gone it is.
Yeah, if she’s angry all the time, that could continue even without you around. And please stop beating yourself that your relationship with your kids won’t ever ‘be the same’, that’s a downward spiralling trap, don’t go there. It seems clear that you are going to have to be the awesome parent who has their shit together. You’ll have to make being the calm, bending, reasonable one, solidly who you are. Your kids are really going to need that, and it doesn’t sound like she’s got it on offer. The quality of your character will always outshine her time advantage, not in every moment. But over time, always! Mothers can always sway young children their way, it’s true. But children grow fast, and learn faster still. Kids always figure it out with time. Stick with calm and good character is my best advice.
@RTF, just my opinion but I’d think those are questions that might be dealbreakers before the children arrive. Afterwards, why not work on it. Especially when people commit to making it work and stick with marriage counseling as long as it takes, disrespect can be addressed and corrected, as can agreements about spending.
I wonder if these days people have seen so few very long term marriages (I’m at thirty years and happy but there were low times when we probably hated each other). To me, they seem to lack a concept of the reality of how a long term marriage goes and the first time they hit one of those thankfully rare but in my opinion practically inevitable low points, they think it’s all over. Again, I’m no expert but having stuck it out through a couple of those, THE GOOD TIMES CAME BACK. Now, we’re best buds and I might add, have accomplished and imo well adjusted grown children.
People like to airly brush the kids aside with cute little cliches when they, themselves, as adults who chose and helped create the situation, can’t handle it, too. More like kids have to eat whatever is forced on them because they have no choice.
I would consider “irredeemable” to be something like schizophrenia or long term addiction, not what has been mentioned here. Marriage is hard. It’s not for lightweights. Sorry if that seems rude but it is my true opinion.
Thank goodness that in less than a year, your daughter will be a legal adult, and no court will be able to tell her anymore who she must live with. Hopefully she can hang in there that long without being driven over the edge.