Advice needed - what to do about poor relative behavior (very long)

Ah Christmas. That great family holiday that draws families closer together so they can be driven further apart.

The Story:

My two sister-in-laws (Who for this story shall be refered to as The Bitch and The Wacko, and this is KIND by any measuring stick) and my wife are currently not seeing eye to eye. The Bitch and The Wacko have decided that the way to get back at my wife is to refuse to accept (and therefore give) the Christmas presents that we purchased for their children. To my wife and me, this is just inexcusable. They have both told their children that we did not get them anything. Now these kids, who have received very nice presents from us in the past, are now under the impression that we are mad at them. WTF is that?

I’ve met some assholes in my day, but I never thought I’d see this… using children to get back at a sibling. We obviously don’t see each other now in a social setting, and we decided to drop the presents off at the grandparent’s home (my wife, The Bitch and The Wacko’s parents), and asked them to give the presents to their grandchildren. The Bitch and The Wacko both refused.

To be clear. I hate both of these women with a passion. The Bitch is a leech who expects others to pay her way through life. The Wacko is a misfit whose own father believes she’s nuts. However, the mother (who if mentioned in this story again will be referred to as the Psycho Witch Puppetmaster), accepts this behavior in her two daughers. My father-in-law (The Spineless Jellyfish) is just scared to death of the Psycho Witch Puppetmaster and does nothing, even though he agrees with my wife’s position.

<whew>

Now, I won’t go into the complete details of why we are where we are. But I will give some background. The Bitch has lived off of her parents for 35 years (this includes her husband, and two kids) to this day. This includes a purchased home when they were married, two new cars, and a list far too long to list. The Bitch was also receiving a nice sum from my wife (a cash contribution of about $500 a month is the estimate). The Bitch is the messiah to Psycho Witch Puppetmaster, and when my wife stopped donating to The Bitch Fund ™, the wheels began to come off of the happy family train. Now before you all start feeling badly for The Bitch, she has a master’s degree and chooses not to work. Her husband has a PhD., but has the motivation of a hibernating bear. These are highly educated people, both in their 30’s, who have all of their bills paid by my in-laws. Just a sanity check… does this sound NORMAL to ANYONE out there?

The Wacko has been upset for a year. Last year, her and her husband (who live in a million dollar plus mansion) gave us used Christmas gifts last year. That’s right, used. This was confirmed on the receipt we got from them when we pushed to take them back. We haven’t heard from her since, even though we gave all four of her children birthday gifts throughout the year.
She now has jumped on the bandwagon because for 40 years she has been the misfit, and is now finally getting attention from the Psycho Witch Puppetmaster because she (the PWP) supports this boycott.

So here we are. I need some advice. How do we get the message to the children that we are not upset with them and the reason they didn’t receive the gifts were because of sick, twisted mothers?

If you got this far, thank you for reading this long diatribe.

SFP

So disconnecting yourselves from these people is not an option?

I’m concerned that money is somehow a driving force behind the scenes here. . .

Is future inheritance from millionaire parents somehow part of this?

Why is/was your wife supporting The Bitch fund?

Guess I’m not much help, huh?

My wife donated to The Bitch fund, because as a child, she was always told that the strong take care of the weak, and The Bitch was considered “weak” by the family. So, my wife (who by the way is the youngest here), lived at home to support her older sister while my wife worked her ass off. When my wife stopped contributing to the fund to move out of the house and get on with her life, the shitstorm began.

The parents are not millionaires. They are old, living off pensions, and are dipping into retirement. They did invest well, but we are talking a school teacher and a nurse, so we aren’t looking at a life changing windfall when they die.

Quite frankly, I figure the money is going to The Bitch. But she has no money managing skills at all and will burn through it very quickly.

Could I disconnect myself? No problem. I’m related by marriage, and I could throw the lot of them into an abyss. However, my wife is close to the children, and has been for 10 years. Why should the kids suffer?

I can definitely empathize with unbearable family dynamics. However, I don’t think you’re necessarily picking the right battles. Things often get overheated over the holidays. Maybe after the holidays you can take a step back and figure out what the priorities need to be in terms of how you relate to these people.

Your concluding sentiment isn’t exactly selfless. It sounds like you are just as willing to use the children as the SILs are. I think taking the gifts to grandma’s and leaving them there is a fine idea. Then let it go. If no one will give them to the kids, let someone give them to charity.

How much financial support someone (even your in-laws) gives to their children is not something you will be able to control. You really don’t have a dog in that fight. Expecting your wife to chip in does sound over the top, but it sounds like that stopped now. If she was able to stop diplomatically, rather than vindictively, so much the better.

Also, used or not, the only appropriate reaction to a gift is “thank you.” Trying to shame them into admitting they were used gifts serves no point. If you don’t like the gifts, give them to charity and get on with it.

(Can you tell a January trip to Goodwill is one of my holiday traditions? :wink: )

Maybe some of this sounds harsh. It comes from years of experience with a family that wasn’t always able to play nice in the holiday sandbox.

If holidays in your family were much different (better, probably) than in your wife’s family, this might be worth spending a few sessions with a counselor, since the issue will keep coming up every year. If your company or your wife’s company offers an EAP (employee assistance program) you can probably get free or very low cost counseling for something like this. The goal of this type of counseling wouldn’t be to solve all the extended family’s problems, but to agree on a strategy for how to deal with it.

Wishing you good luck with a difficult situation.

Is there a normal relative that is close to the children who can tell them you and your wife are not mad with them. I think that using children as pawns should be considered a form of abuse but that is just me. If you suspect there is some form of abuse, call child protective services. Many children are used as collateral and unfortunatly that is not illegal.

You do not like these women because they are lazy, right? You are probably also resentful because your wife has worked so hard (and that is something she be praised for along with her loyalty to her family. Those are wonderful lessons to teach your children if you have any)?

The only thing I can say is to go ahead and seperate yourself and family from these people. There are some people you just can’t get along with and sometimes the best way to be loyal to a family is not to have contact with them.

Never show anger towards the parents in front of the kids because that can traumatize them.

And you did the right thing by taking the presents over to the grandparents but they can’t force them on the witches.

I agree with the previous poster that therepy might be a good thing.

Good luck, I know that family dynamics can be complex and complicated. You are in my thoughts and prayers

My wife is posting the following message…

Thanks to those who responded so far…I appreciate the advice. To address the issue of counseling, it’s important to note that my Mother was the charge nurse in a Psychiatry Ward for twenty years. She is a master of manipulation, and in fact, the situation is what it is because she has been unsuccessful at controlling me, and as a result I have been officially ‘dismissed’. In short, she’s a vicious woman whose existance is sustained by the constant control of others, so it’s really no surprise that my sisters have turned out to behave in the same manner.

My nieces and nephew live in lovely homes and to the outside world appear quite lucky. Unfortunately, what people don’t see is that they are emotionally abused and ignored by their parents. Calling child protective services is a thought, but even if CPS acted seriously, the best the children could hope for is a foster home which could be as bad, if not worse, than their current situation.
That’s why I’ve tried so hard to stay in the childrens’ lives and let them know that they are loved, regardless of their parents’ behavior. Hence, the reason that the Christmas gifts are so important…they’re old enough to know that their parents don’t care and now they think that I don’t either (because that’s what they’ve been told by their parents as a reason for why they received no Christmas gifts…this was told to me by a third party also attending their Christmas dinner).

Thanks again to all who have responded and for the thoughts and prayers!

My wife is posting the following message…

Thanks to those who responded so far…I appreciate the advice. To address the issue of counseling, it’s important to note that my Mother was the charge nurse in a Psychiatry Ward for twenty years. She is a master of manipulation, and in fact, the situation is what it is because she has been unsuccessful at controlling me, and as a result I have been officially ‘dismissed’. In short, she’s a vicious woman whose existance is sustained by the constant control of others, so it’s really no surprise that my sisters have turned out to behave in the same manner.

My nieces and nephew live in lovely homes and to the outside world appear quite lucky. Unfortunately, what people don’t see is that they are emotionally abused and ignored by their parents. Calling child protective services is a thought, but even if CPS acted seriously, the best the children could hope for is a foster home which could be as bad, if not worse, than their current situation.
That’s why I’ve tried so hard to stay in the childrens’ lives and let them know that they are loved, regardless of their parents’ behavior. Hence, the reason that the Christmas gifts are so important…they’re old enough to know that their parents don’t care and now they think that I don’t either (because that’s what they’ve been told by their parents as a reason for why they received no Christmas gifts…this was told to me by a third party also attending their Christmas dinner).

Thanks again to all who have responded and for the thoughts and prayers!

Sometimes if you work in the mental health field, you can’t see the nose for the face. Unfortunatly, I also know people like her. And I think it is admirable and selfless to work hard to stay in the lives of those children.

If you decided to call CPS, you can petition to get the children yourself. Most judges realize the benefits of keeping the children with family members. You can call CPS and at least talk to them about it. Or call 1-800-FOR-A-CHILD. That is the number for The Center for Missing and Exploited Children. You don’t have to give your name or address and you can just talk to someone about the whole situation. They also might be able to give you some advise on how to handle it.

Anyway, I hope you take action quick but understand if you don’t. You are still in my thoughts and prayers. Please keep us all updated.

Wow.

Nothing else helpful except Shodan’s annual prayer of gratitude that people in my family love and respect each other. Many of us are somewhat beyond eccentric, but none of us act as hateful as described above. For which I thank God.

I have no idea whatever how to get the message to your nieces/nephews that you still love them and care about them.

You will be in my prayers.

Regards,
Shodan

Sadly, you can’t get the message that Uncle/Aunt Stink Fish Pot love the kids and didn’t forget them at Christmas through the wall of insanity they’re living behind. What you can do, however, is patiently wait it out. Those kids will grow up, realize their parents are dweebs and quite possibly remember how great the Stink Fish Pots were when they were young. They’ll need sane relations to bond with someday and that’s when you’ll be there for them.

Far more important in the long run than a few missed toys now. Good luck!

In my experience, calling Chile Protective Services on anyone who can afford a lawyer is an exercise in futility. They will roll right over for anyone who has a lawyer.

Sorry, Child. I don’t think Chile needs protection.

How old are these kids? Would they be allowed to open their own mail?
Then you could send them a nice letter or card to show that their aunt and uncle do care about them. Probably better to make no mention of the Christmas presents, for the reasons stated by others above, but for most kids it´s thrilling to receive a real letter addressed to them personally (maybe better not to put your return address on the envelope? Sort of sneaky, but probably the way to go if you think the letters would otherwise “disappear”), maybe with a funny story or some nice pictures drawn on the letter paper - depends on the age of the kids. Then they´d know you love them and haven´t forgotten about them, and I think that´s more important than the gifts themselves.
Good luck to both of you!

MinniePurl: They will not roll over for anyone who has a lawyer. If you report that you suspect a child is being abused, they have to do an investigation. They are required to go into the home and investigate (and they show up unannounced). These are not the usual people off the street, they are social workers and family specialists who are well trained in seeing past a facade. They talk to the parents and children. They are not perfect but then again no one is. Sometimes the act is so sociopathic, they are fooled but usually they are found out some other time. Also, even if they are shown not to be abusing, they are marked. The file is not thrown away or destroyed and CPS can come into the home at any other time. I have also heard about cases where they go in, investigate and then take the kids with them. (I have friends who are social workers who work for CPS. It is a job I could never do)

If you did send a card you would have to change the return address but the parents may not let their kids have maill sent by a stranger and of course they would intercept any letter sent by this couple.

The only danger in waiting for the kids to grow up, is that this sort of stuff tends to do alot of emotional damage. Bruises heal fast but emotional wounds last a very very long time.

It is possible that until the children are of age, you may not be able to let them know how much they are cared for. I know that must hurt you to know that they are hurting.

But on every birthday and for each Christmas for each child, donate to a special organization in that child’s name and keep a record of it. Usually the organization will offer you a receipt. Sometimes they will notify the person in whose name you have donated. St. Jude’s Hospital, the Make a Wish Foundation and UNICEF are just some suggestions – and all have to do with children. When the children are grown, you can show them how you thought about them on every special occasion and always loved them.

You can also try having balloons delivered to school to each child on the same day with notes saying that you will always love them no matter how it may seem sometimes and that they must trust in that love no matter what.

There is nothing that can be done to “fix” any of the adults in the family. Just don’t rent them space in your minds.

Y’can’t control another human unless that human in some way wishes to be controlled.

(exception: you can make any human dead, if you can get to them. This has consequences, however.)

Therefore, when someone is behaving badly, all you can really do is say “I don’t like,” in some way… and then turn your back on them.

From what you’re telling me, it’s not surprising they’d use the children as a weapon against you. However, experience has taught me that kicking the crap out of your children on a regular basis bears its own punishment. Someday, mom and dad will be old… and the children will be fully grown… and they remember things you’d never dream they’d remember.

Control is never absolute.

I would not count on CPS to do much. If Mom was a psychiatric nurse, she will have a pretty good idea of how to play the system, and there are ways this sort of thing can be made to backfire. I’d make damn sure that I couldn’t get hurt in that… THEN, I’d ask questions of CPS.

Oh, and people who can get master’s degrees and PhD’s are not “weak.” Anyone who can stand up and defend a damn dissertation can stand up and say, “I’m looking for a job.”

Thank you all for your thoughtful replies. My wife has been uplifted by the folks on this board (and so have I). In my opinion, this problem is so out of hand that I’m confident that it will never be completely solved. This has been a very difficult Christmas for my wife. I have also been frustrated, but more by the pain my wife is going through than the family dynamics. I’m also upset that the children, who have been treated generously by us and cared for a great deal for their whole lives, are now being used as a pawn. Evil family, my in-laws.
I know there are those of you that suspect there are two sides to this story. There are. But, I have to say, since I’ve been in this pathetic excuse for a “family”, I’ve watched my Psycho Witch Puppetmaster twist and manipulate all situations. She has called me a liar to my face, and quite frankly I had no axe to grind with this piece of work. In my opinion, she is a pathetic, warped, twisted old woman. Her only goals in life are to make sure The Bitch is never perceived to be a failure (confirmed verbally to me by The Spineless Jellyfish), and to make my wife beg for mercy under her thumb. My wife just won’t bend, and my respect grows for her every day.

For my part, the sad thing is that we live near all of her family and not near mine, so being shut out of any family festivities for the holidays is disappointing. But I accept this fate because I agree with my wife and I will never bend for these people either.

A disturbing story my wife told me gave me an idea of what my Psycho Witch Puppetmaster was like as a parent. As a teenager, my wife was twice misdiagnosed with a fatal illness. Although not a fatal illness, my wife spent several months in the hospital and was slow to recover. When she was out of the woods, my lovely Psycho Witch Puppetmaster told her …while STILL in the hospital… that if my wife didn’t get in line, she knew what to say and who to talk to make sure she was committed into a psychiatric ward, and she was friends with the psychiatrist who would sign off on the committment papers. Nice, huh?

I also know that these children will grow up, and they will have so much more to resent their parents about other than some refused gifts. And we’re both are determined to communicate what happened, at least from our point of view when they are old enough to understand (perhaps college age). By that time, they can make their own decisions and cope with the immense cruelty they were subjected to at a younger age.

Thank you all for the prayers. They are much appreciated.

SFP

At this point, I thought I’d reply to some of the questions posted by you folks.

universe.zip asked:

No. The kids are old enough to open their own mail, but not if the parents don’t recognize the sender. They would also reject anything they got from us. The oldest is 10, the youngest is 3.

geewiz asked:

Obviously, no. Unfortunately, what you’ve read is as good as it gets.

and…

I don’t like these women for a number of reasons, lazy being one of them. However if they treated their children with respect, I could ignore their poor behavior. I don’t care if they ever speak to me, but I resent them using their children as tools in this dispute. My wife HAS busted her ass, and has provided both sisters with significant financial support. The fact that this isn’t even acknowledged any more does chap my ass. My wife and I both work hard for what we have. My sister-in-law expects for her life to be paid for. It’s just the way it is. To an outsider like me, it is the strangest family I’ve ever been around. I refuse to pay anything to either one of these women, and that hasn’t endeared me to the family at all. Disfunctional doesn’t even begin to touch the surface of this family.

Master Wang-Ka wisely said:

Thank you! Bravo! My thoughts exactly. The PhD. has actually received a good job offer, but refused it because he and The Bitch would have had to move out of the area (and away from the Psycho Witch Puppetmaster), and that just won’t happen. The Bitch just won’t work. She has a master’s degree, but that just isn’t discussed.

Finally, a couple of you have asked about CPS. I really don’t think that is a realistic option. These folks do live very well, and I don’t think they CPS) would ever take these children away from their parents. Plus, I personally have trouble making a phone call like this when we are not impartial. I’m not interested in upsetting the kids because I’m annoyed at their parents. If there was physical abuse, that’s one thing. But it won’t be explored because they didn’t get my Christmas presents. I’m annoyed, but I’m not irrational.

It sounds like you may just have to wait until the kids are a bit older. In the meantime, the charity thing was a good idea, but an even better one is to open trust funds for each child with you as the trustee(or is it trustor?), donating on birthdays and holidays, etc. Their parents can’t touch it, and the kids get to reap the benefits of both money and the tangible evidence that someone actually cared.
This is a tradition of sorts that we have in my family, it has helped my sister and I through college, my brother got his money when he turned 21, and my nieces have so many toys and crap that we all feel better just contributing a little to their funds, rather than getting them more and more crap. It doesn’t have to be huge, either.
Plus it keeps you far away from the Puppetmaster…(shudder)