Advice re: getting a second dog

In My Humble Opinion
1

Dear Dopers:

My wife and I are considering getting a second dog this year to give jeevpup the experience of being an older brother and of having a constant playmate. jeevpup turns 4 this year, and was a pound rescue. He’s a terrier lab mix, and generally gets along with other dogs.

Unlike my sister-in-law, we will fully involve jeevpup in the adoption decision and consider his preferences. However, we have some questions and would appreciate insight from other dog owners.

jeevpup was acquired as an adult and is quite crate-phobic. He now spends the time when we’re at work in our roomy, well-lit basement with a view outside. He has a dog walker who comes in the afternoon to take him out to relieve himself and stretch his legs.

We are looking to get a younger dog, who may need housebreaking. We plan to take a week off of work to try and get that process going, but if for some reason it takes more than a week, we may need to go down the crate training road, at least until we have some confidence that she can hold it at least between the time we leave and the dog walker comes, and the time the dog walker leaves and we return home. In this scenario, is it better to have the new dog crated downstairs with jeevpup, or upstairs by herself?

If the latter, should we allow her to spend, say, the morning downstairs with jeevpup and have the walker crate her upstairs in the afternoons once we have some confidence in her ability to hold it, with a view towards phasing out the crate and giving both dogs run of the basement when we’re away? Does it ever work out this way, or do you end up with the dogs separated most of the day? (in which case, the main point of getting a second dog, i.e. to give the old dog a regular playmate, may be frustrated).

Are there any issues that might arise with the new dog being crated downstairs with the old dog? Should they be separated at first, i.e. the crated dog in one part of the basement and the uncrated dog in another?

I’m sure we’ll have more questions, but we want to make sure we do this the “right way,” to the extent there is such a thing. Any thoughts or advice are appreciated!

2

I don’t know if there is “A Right Way” but here are my initial thoughts. (I only have one dog, though).

If you get a very young puppy he will almost surely only be able to hold it for a few hours at the most. A dog a little older, say, over 6 months, might be able to make it all morning and until the dog walker comes. Having another dog to show him what to do might help him learn the housebreaking thing faster, though.

I would try the dogs together as much as possible, as long as they seem to enjoy it. If one dog is overly stressed, either because he is in the crate and wants to be out like the other dog, or because the dog in the crate is stressing him out, then you may want to separate them until both dogs can be out together. I think it would upset my dog if we left another dog in a crate - she would want it to come out and play with her!

I think a crate it still a good idea for the new dog though, it gives him a place to call his own that your dog will not follow or bother him. After a while they will sort out who is in charge and their own boundaries, but there will be a time of adjustment where the new dog may feel stressed and just need a break.

Make sure you show attention to both dogs - you don’t want your dog to feel replaced by a new dog.

Have you ever had other dogs visit or stay at your house before? Keep in mind that dogs react differently to other dogs when they are in ‘their’ house than they might in the park, for example. Our dog will allow visiting dogs to share her dish and toys, but I know many dogs would not tolerate that. That’s fine, it’s just something to watch and keep in mind that even if the dogs get along great they may need some things of their own.

Good luck - I sometimes consider getting a second dog as well for the reasons you gave.

3

Thanks for the advice. jeevpup definitely doesn’t mind other dogs being in his house; he usually likes to show the dog how to run up and down the stairs and be a general terror to guests. Our real concern is when we leave them alone together, before the new dog can hold its bladder. We wouldn’t want jeevpup to take up peeing again, based on the theory “well, the new dog does it while mom and dad are gone, guess it’s ok now.”

4

Good luck! I see you’re planning on doing the right thing by getting jeevpup involved in the “selection process.”
However, Velma makes a very good point, which I thought was so good it needed to be repeated:
Make sure jeevpup is OK with other dogs in his house. Dogs that are fine with other dogs in, say, the dog park, or on a walk, or wherever, can get extremely territorial when THEIR SPACE is invaded by another dog. Try to get the dog on a “loaner” basis - to try it out for a night or two - before completely committing to getting THIS DOG.

As for training: JeevPup2 may be actually quite grateful for the crate. When I got Dog2, he adored his crate because he knew it was his “safe zone”. He was crated when we left the house, and Dog1 had the run of the place - we didn’t separate them.
This sounds more idealistic than it really is, however - Dog2 was a retired racing Greyhound and had already been crate-trained.
Dog1 ALWAYS hated his crate, and destroyed one (the wire kind), tried to destroy an “Airline-type” crate, and finally succeeded in escaping it - within 30 seconds of being put in - consistently. (It was at that point we knew we didn’t have to use it anymore, since he was well-behaved after that.) (And no, I still have NO idea how he ever got out of that thing.)
CurrentDog (aka Dog3) was acquired after our Grey died, largely to keep Dog1 company. Unfortunately, CurrentDog was a puppy and therefore did not appreciate the benefits of crating as much as our Grey had. (But he still appreciated “his own space” and adapted quickly).
I think it really depends on the dog.
If you’re going to get a puppy, I’d highly recommend Puppies For Dummies before you get JeevPup2, so you have time to decide how to train (and select) JP2.
If you’re uncertain to breeds, this page might help you select one or two.
Sorry this wasn’t much help overall - I seem to have taken a long time to tell you essentially, “um, yeah, whatever works; depends on the dog.”

A technique I have seen (and used) that was originally recommended for dogs with Separation Anxiety (helping them get over it), but also works for crate-training, is to put the dogs in their respective locations (wherever they are), and “leave”. But just leave to go outside, where they can’t see you but you can hear them. Come back in after anywhere from 5-15 minutes. If there’s no problems, then try leaving on a short trip, say to be gone for 30 minutes or so, and so forth. Check on JP2 when you come back, as well as the condition of JP2’s crate. If the dogs seem happy with the arrangement (whichever one it was), then you know that it’s a good one.
However, if you start out with JP2 and JP in separate locations, you’re definitely going to want to move JP2’s crate in with JP before you just throw them together uncrated, so they can get used to sharing the same living space while you’re gone.

5

Some things to consider when adding a dog…

Generally, girl & girl is bad, girl & boy is good, boy & boy is usually good, for getting along together. Girl dogs are often extremely possessive and territorial with other girl dogs.

Consider breed types. Are both active breeds? Are both couch potatoes? This can make a huge difference, don’t get a border collie to keep your beagle company.

When we added a dog, we took our current dog with us around to all of the shelters and took potential dogs out for an “interview walk” with ours. Sometimes, dogs can have unexplicable instant dislike for other dogs and we saved ourselves some potential conflict by allowing our dog to screen her potential new housemates first.

6

Sorry, jeevwoman, you snuck in while I was composing my lengthy and incoherent missive and now it looks like I didn’t pay attention to what you said.

Since jeevpup is cool with other dogs in his house, I’d have to say try crating jeevpup2 in jeevpup’s area and see if they can handle it. I agree, you definitely don’t want jeevpup deciding that piddling indoors is OK now, but if JP2 is crated, and let out on a timely basis, that shouldn’t be a problem.

7

GargoyleWB, While statistically you may be correct that female/female pairings of dogs have a slightly higher rate of territorialism and aggression, I don’t think it’s correct to say that “Generally, girl & girl is bad”. It will be fine in most cases. Your advice to let your current dog meet and interact with a new dog before agreeing to adoption or ownership is a good idea.

jeevmon – We have Zoe, a beagle/basset mix (she’s three and a half) and 6 months ago we got our second dog, Piper, a female basset-golden mix. She was 6 months old at the time and not house broken. We crate Piper and have always left her downstairs in view of Zoe. It’s worked out fine. Piper just turned a year and we are very soon going to start trying to acclimate her to being left uncrated while we go out. We didn’t have any issues with crating her downstairs. In a way, I think it may help your new dog adjust better as well, as she can see that she still has run of the house while the “new guy” does not have that privilege.

Hope it works out for you! Our two are now best friends and they play all the time. I’m sorry we waited as long as we did to get Piper.

Also, good on you for getting rescue dogs. :slight_smile:

8

mouthbreather, your situation sounds the most like ours. Zoe doesn’t try to break Piper out or anything, then? jeevpup hates crates so much that our fear is he will try to break his little sister (yes, we do plan to get the opposite gender dog and one with equal energy to jp) out while we are gone, or cry all day long because he can’t play with her. We would only keep her in there till she is housebroken enough to last for the dog walker, but presumably if we do get a puppy, it might be long. But Zoe has never seemed disturbed that she can’t play with Piper all day?

One dog we are consdering right now (go to pawschicago.org and find ‘Ellie’) seems like she will be perfect for jp and at 10 months, she shouldn’t take too long to be housebroken. So it might only be an issue for a few weeks. (We hope!!)

9

I would try it while you are there and if jeevpup gets stressed out about it and doesn’t seem to relax after a while, I would keep new dog’s crate away from jeevpup, like in another room, until it is ok for them to be out together. If he tries to free the new dog she’s probably going to get stressed out too. Keeping them separate for a while might also have the added benefit of letting new dog get used to the house on her own, too. Then when you are home and can supervise they can play together. I don’t know what their sleeping arrangements will be but this might be harder if new dog has to be crated overnight for a while and you keep the dogs in your room. I would say trial and error - just try different scenarios until something works.

You also might want to try keeping a crate out now before you get the dog so jeevpup can get used to it just being around. Maybe after a while he will realize he doesn’t have to be in the crate and relax a little? Or does just the sight of the crate freak him out - if that’s the case you’ll know that they can’t be left in the same room all day together.

A 10 month old dog should be able to hold her bladder until the dog walker comes, and if she is at all housebroken and used to going outside I bet it won’t take long for her to figure it out at your house. I think it’s more likely that she will learn where to go from jeevpup than for jeevpup to revert back to going in his house - once dogs learn not to go inside they rarely want to start again. Adult dogs also can understand when puppies are making mistakes.

10

Well, she hasn’t. However, you need to keep in mind that Zoe is one of the most relaxed, well behaved dogs I have ever encountered. She isn’t nuertoic about the crate to begin with, so me saying she doesn’t mind probably doesnt have a lot of bearing on how jeevpup will react.

If you’re taking a week off, then it sounds like you will get them both acclimated to each other as much as can be expected before you head back to work. Try it, in very short spurts, fooling the dog if you need to. Crate the puppy, get in your car and drive up the street. Walk back down, and, assuming you can see or hear what’s going on without alerting either dog that you are nearby, check it out.

Did you ever try any methods of warming up your older one to the crate? These are very simple, and you may have already tried them. If not, give it a shot.

• Climb in there yourself, if possible. Show jeevpup that it’s something that you can and will do and that it isnt the end of the world.

• Leave the crate, door open, in the middle of the room while you play with him – so that he gets used to the simple presence of it.

• With the door wide open, put a treat in the back of it so that he has to go in there to get it and he can come right back out.

11

I have a 5 year old miniature aussie, and I recently bought her her .own dog. :smiley: She isn’t crate phobic, but she’s very well house trained, and no longer needs one.

I used a crate for the new puppy, luckiily for me, I was able to also take him to work.

Anyway, as to your question, when I had to leave him in the crate, I found it helped if she was in the same room. I also kept it in my bedroom, so that he could see me at night.

I only use it for when I have to be gone, and at night, he’s pretty well along in potty training now.

My older dog LOVES having her own dog. (aussies NEEEEEED their own dog). It’s been a pretty easy transition. My aussie, (not the most calm breed out there), didn’t have any problems when the puppy was crated, except in the very beginning, for some reason she’d get nervous when I put him in there.

Good luck!!

12

<sigh> We’ve actually done all of these, and more. It was a difficult time, to say the least. We’ve no problem with him not liking crates–I am not a huge fan of them, anyway, but we are told that normal dogs like them and so thought the new one might be trained for one already, etc. Our main concern was how jp1 would react to having a new sister that he can’t play with during most of the day. But based upon everyone’s experiences, it seems like he’ll probably be ok and if we leave them in small amounts of time at first, they should be fine. And as soon as jp2 can hold her bladder, we’ll probably get rid of the crate, anyway.

Thanks, everyone!

13

The only thing I’d really stress is that jp1 will need his alone time. He needs to know he’s not losing his place in the pack. Crating jp2 when you’re not home may well be a good thing.

Also - don’t be alarmed if jp1 totally hates jp2’s gutts for the first week or two (especially if jp2 is a puppy). My older service dog spends about 2 weeks disciplining new puppies when they arrive at the house. This involves a lot of growling, some alpha-rolling, some neck-chewing, and some nipping. It does, however, teach puppy some manners (i.e. don’t mess with the old guy, he’s above me in the pack…) and actually seriously helps the training process. Eventually, he’ll warm up to puppy.

Be sure to give jp1 his own one-on-one time with you, and with the dog walker. Sometimes, puppy can nap in his or her crate and you can play with jp1. It will help the transition a great deal.

Also make sure that jp1 has space that is his own - space he can retreat to but that puppy isn’t allowed in. I use a crate for that, because my old guy is such a crate-dog, but maybe jp1 can be allowed in a room where puppy can’t go. This lets the older guy escape the puppy-teeth-of-doom when he doesn’t wanna deal with it. :slight_smile:

Good luck with the new addition!

Honestly, 2 dogs are easier to handle than just the one!