If he refuses or has no time for you, then you have your closure.
You don’t know me, but I think you’re a wonderful person and that he’s missing out - but please, don’t take his apparent indifference as the be-all, end-all of life as you know it. 
Tell him you really want to see him again before he leaves- that you would hate the thought of a friend leaving without a chance to say goodbye.
Dantheman, that’s why I did a great deal of probing to see exactly what it is Swiddle really wants–if what she was looking for was 1) a chance to continue the relationship or 2) simply acknowledgement from him that Something Signifigant had almost occured. To me, saying:
tells me she is looking for the latter.
I am assuming that Swindles is one of those people who tends to overanalyze-I may be projecting, as I am one myself, but she sounds to me like she has spent a great deal of time thinking about this guy, and about this relationship, trying to determine the signifigance of every little action, word, non-action and non-word on his part. When you’re like that, you are plauged with self-doubt, and it is a great comfort if, eventually, you get some kind of acknowledgement that the entire relationship wasn’t a product of your fevered imagination, that this thing that was one of the pivitol momments of your life wasn’t so insignifigant to the other person that they won’t even count you amoung the girls that they have dated, because you will simply be forgotten. That’s what she needs closure on.
It looks to me like this is one of those situtions where hope is the worst thing you can have: how could a relationship possibly develop when they are 1) living 3000 miles apart ith neither willing to move in the future and 2) they are not both fully, 100% commited to maintaining that relationship no matter what? If there was more time, it would be different–they could grow to the point where they had the commitment level you need to maintain a long distance relationship. I could be wrong, of course, but the OP is asking for opinions, and that is mine.
Swiddles
Buy one of those cool contemporary cards that hae art on the cover (nothing sentimental!) are blank inside (NO verse!) and write him what you want to say in a note. And I’d include the thing about the wedding–the whole point here is to say what you feel while maintaining your dignity, and the trick to that is acting like a better person than you feel you really are. And you know what, in four years when he calls and invites you to his wedding, you will be happy to attend, and you will be genuinly thrilled that he’s finally found a great girl, and your beloved SO will finally get a chance to meet him and will agree with you that he is a really great guy.
Yikes! Hope is the worst thing you can have? No way. Never, ever, ever is hope a bad thing. There’s nothing wrong with hoping for the best if you’re also realistic about your chances.
Besides, there’s a whole thread on long-distance relationships. I know she said she’s infamously bad at these, but it IS possible.
[We disagree so well together!]
Hope is a very bad thing if it keeps you from moving on, which seems likely in this senario. I have known so many people, male and female, who have spent years pining after the one that got away. It’s not healthy: it makes you miserable, and it makes the potential mates you ignore because you are pining miserable too.
In my opinion, the situation here is about the worst you could have for a long distance relationship: The rhythm is off. It is a very different dynamic to develop a long distance relationship when you start off living in different places, or when you have a solid relationship and you temporarily seperate for some concrete reason.
The hard part about long-distance relationships is that you have to completely redefine all the patterns of your relationship all at once. --you have to invent new ways to display affection, to offer advice, to communicate information, to communicate emotions, to express concerns, to divide responsibilities, the whole kit and cabbodle. This is actually easier when you start off in different places, because the whole relationship is based on the parts of you that are possible to share at a distance–that’s how you meet and realize you have potential, after all. And you will notice that those relationships often devlop very slowly, because the process of discovering each other is slowed down by the medium. In my experience, on line relationships almost always have a long period when the two people are impressed with each other, and even think “if only we lived close”, but during which they continue to consider themselves “on the market” in their own towns. Furthermore, you will notice that in all cases in the other thread, one person finally moved–long distance relationships can’t last forever–not more than about three years, in my experience, and three years is really pushing it.
When you start off together in a firm and established relationship and you seperate for whatever reason, you have enough shared history and practice talking to each other to forge new patterns based on your new limitations. This is high-level communication. However, this is extraordinarily diffucult even for people who have been married for years, (and again, in my experience) only couples who 1) have firm plans to reunite at a definite time and/or under definite circumstances, 2) are both commited to the reason for the seperation, and 3) are really good at analyzing and disscussing things with each other in an objective manner manage to make this work.
This relationship fits neither of the above senrios, and in my humble opinion shares the weaknesses of both: unlike an established relationship, these two aren’t good communicators with each other, and unlike a relationship that begins long-distance, they have already established the patterns of the relationship in things that don’t work long distance (sex and communicating through mutual friends and hints). Furthermore, they don’t have any plans that would make reuniting practical in the next few years, and it is my impression that they are both in the sort of finacial bracket that would make hoping on a place and flying 3000 miles once a month impractical.
I know I am coming across as horribly pessimistic, but this Swiddles and this guy have been together on a daily basis for two years and the relationship never happened. I don’t want to see her spending the next two years thinking that she could have been happy, if only . . .
Swiddles, I apologize if this comes off in any way as insulting–I don’t think it is, and certainly I like and admire the heck out of you, and think you are doing a good job coping with a crappy situation–just recognizing that some closure and recognition are important is an impressive piece of self-analysis. I do feel confident that some day you’ll be glad you know this guy, and equally glad that you ended up with the eventual Mr. Swiddles, because you are a smart, down-to-earth sort of woman who knows how to take pleasure in life (and I mean, you’re a doper, so you are obviously a person of intelligence, taste and refinement). So please don’t look at my over-analysis as any sort of condemnation–it’s not meant to be, but upon rereading it, I worry that it might look like such. If so, I apologize.
Keep with the happy movies, wine, and good gay friends, and i might suggest some sort of grueling physical labor–either clean out your closets/organize your life or start an intensive excersise program. It’ll help with the sleeping and with the having your mind get caught up in loops of hte same old thoughts.
Dammit, I had this nice long reply and stupid IE exited on me. Basically, it said…
Dan, I admire your optimism. However, Manda is pretty much right. I’d like him to tell me he loves me madly, but mostly just to legitimize my feelings for him. I hadn’t considered it that way before. I just want him to want me so I know it wasn’t all in my head. So I know I’m worthy. He’s only in school for a year, but it’s a film program, and I assume he’ll want to move to LA or New York afterwards. Who knows, I might be in New York at that point, it might all work out. But I’m not betting money on it. As I said before, this guy really got burned in his last relationship, and I think he’s pretty set on the idea of being a swingin’ bachelor, which is why he’s freaking out right now. When he looks at me, it’s with affection. When he speaks to me, it’s with this gentle aspect to his voice. But even if he was staying, I wonder if he’d WANT a relationship. Eh. This is all pretty useless rehashing.
Manda, sometimes I have this image of what I think a Doper SHOULD look like. I have this image of you as Lucy behind the “Doctor is IN” desk. Don’t worry about me being insulted, I’d be more insulted if you thought these things and didn’t post them. And it’s funny, I DID clean my apartment yesterday. Well, sorta. It’s a REALLY messy apartment.
See?! This is what I mean. She never agrees with me.
I’m gonna go find a rock to hide under.
I can only give you his perspective as I see it. If he’s looking at you with affection, then he cares for you. Sure, he’s not likely to drop everything for you or profess some deep-seated love for you, but that’s called an unrealistic hope. What I’m saying is that you should hope that he thinks of you as more than a sexual conquest. If he’s that great of a guy, he’ll be above that kind of bullshit.
So basically, gorgeous geek guy’s method of pitching woo is:
“Remember when we hung out before I went to Germany?”
“Um…yea. I recall.”
“That was fun.”
“Um…yea.”
“If you ever want to do that again sometime, LET ME KNOW.”
*
What a silver-tongued devil he is. I wish I had half that level of charm back in the day.
You want my impression? You’ve known thehim for two years. You’ve slept with him on multiple occasions. Yet you still are playing “Does he like me? I hope he likes me?” as if you were in high school. My own Puritanical view is that the time to find out if you’ve got a relationship is before you hop into bed together, but that’s neither here nor there. The real issue is that you should be good enough friends to stop by and say “Look, guy. I’m smitten with you. Any interest, or should I just go join the French Foreign Legion?” That’s pretty much the way that mature adults handle their relationships.
So basically, gorgeous geek guy’s method of pitching woo is:
“Remember when we hung out before I went to Germany?”
“Um…yea. I recall.”
“That was fun.”
“Um…yea.”
“If you ever want to do that again sometime, LET ME KNOW.”
*
What a silver-tongued devil he is. I wish I had half that level of charm back in the day.
You want my impression? You’ve known thehim for two years. You’ve slept with him on multiple occasions. Yet you still are playing “Does he like me? I hope he likes me?” as if you were in high school. My own Puritanical view is that the time to find out if you’ve got a relationship is before you hop into bed together, but that’s neither here nor there. The real issue is that you should be good enough friends to stop by and say “Look, guy. I’m smitten with you. Any interest, or should I just go join the French Foreign Legion?” That’s pretty much the way that mature adults handle their relationships.
Ah, too true. This is the source of my current misery.
Swiddles, my gut reaction is that he does love you. *
He may not want to voice it. If he voices it, it becomes real and not just something in his head. Then he has a possibly painful decision to make. And he may fear the prospect of the long-distance relationship. Lord knows how hard those are. (well, I know, anyway). He wants to pretend it’s nothing.
I say bust him. Lay it on the table and make him do the same. he may come clean. He may lie like a dog because he doesn’t want to deal with an emotionally messy truth. Either way, I think you’ll feel better if you speak your piece.
*[sub]I have a weird sense about these things[/sub]
Devil’s Advocate here.
Eh. He knows you like him and is using you for sex. He’s free when he wants to be, but not when you want a time.
This post is a reminder from the Evil Side of Life awareness task force.
How odd, multiple posts disappeared.
OK, here it is. I went into the store yesterday to return a movie, and there he was, in all his glory. I was picking out a movie, and he was returning movies, and he stopped me.
“Hey, I’ve been meaning to ask you. The last time I was over, you said you had been sick, right?”
“Err…yea. I had a little cold.”
“Cause I’ve been really sick.”
“Huh. I just had a cold.”
I’ll spare you the rest of the boring details. We exchanged petty symptoms of our illnesses, I told him I didn’t have a fever, neither did he. (then how the hell is it the flu?) I said I still was head-coldish, but I didn’t know what was the cold and what was just the fact that I smoked too much. He agreed. That was that. Uncomfortable silence. I said something pithy and got the hell out of there.
So here’s what I’ve decided: I think tomorrow is his last shift. He ended up taking off the whole last week he was supposed to work. (the fellow who does the schedual is also my close friend) So I’ll go in tomorrow night, return the movie I took out, and engage in some small talk about when he’s leaving, and say “well, if I don’t see you before you leave, here’s my email address, have a great time in school, don’t do anything I wouldn’t.” Or something to that effect. Light, airy. Uneffected. Then I’ll go home and drink the entire bottle of Jacob’s Creek Chard I just bought, probably cry a bit and smoke a lot. Cigarettes and otherwise. And eventually, I’ll get over him. Or under someone else. Or both. 
Teetotalers may scoff, but I’ll choose a chemical induced detachment over searing pain this time.
Uffda!
Holy hangover in a case, Batman.
Listen, we’re throwing a ‘Dirty Thirty’ surprise boithday party for a friend tomorrow night. Do yer drinkin’ here.
Tripler
Trust me.
Oh Swiddles. I know we’ve only met once and haven’t e-mailed each other in a while, but I do feel like I know you on some small level, and my brief interaction with you made me believe we could be great friends, if circumstances were different.
You remind me of my three best girl friends in a lot of ways. I look at these three women who are so beautiful, so fierce, so intelligent and talented and capable and responsible and hilariously funny and wise and strong, and I am awed by them. And then I look at the men they date, or have sex with, or even fall in love with, and I see them get hurt time after time after time, and I just can’t understand why these guys don’t realize how awesome my girls are and treat them accordingly. I definitely see this situation in that light: why won’t this gorgeous geek acknowledge how spectacular you are and worship at your feet, even if he is leaving anyway?
I’m sort of glad you’ve already got some closure, because honestly I had no idea what to tell you - I suck at advice. I think your plan of action is the best possible ending to this crazy situation (which I’ve absolutely been in myself). Say goodbye, then obliterate your consciousness for a few days. Get it all out, too - the tears and anger and resentment. Make a voodoo doll, or just beat your least favorite stuffed animal against the wall. (I spent thirty minutes last Saturday crying hysterically, right before I had to give a speech at my school, over a guy who’s been out of my life for three months, because I didn’t let myself cry for him at the time.) Listen to as much Joni Mitchell and Janis Joplin as possible, eat some B&J (I know you have access to all the really good flavors), watch your favorite movies, and take two Tylenol in the morning.
For the near future, I wish you all the righteous ganja you can smoke. For the slightly-less-near future, I wish you more bliss-inducing, earth-shattering, perfect-timing, absolutely-100%-totally-reciprical love than you ever thought possible.
Well, I vote against subtle, against dignified, and against notes, and adjournment to email.
You don’t get the brass ring, unless you reach for it. This is true love we are talking about. OK, maybe not, but it could be, and if you don’t take the chance now, out loud, and without a drop back plan, you will never know, ever, for your whole fuckin’ life if it would have been different.
Go see him, tell him you want some time to talk, alone, out of bed, before he goes away. Then be up front, and out loud, and in English without any strategy. “I think we could be real lovers, as in two people who love each other. I don’t want you to go away without knowing that, and thinking about it. If you don’t want to love me, it’ll suck, but I will deal with it. Not knowing would be worse. So, think, and then talk, OK? I don’t mean give up your life for me, or don’t go to school, I mean tell me what you feel, and if we should make plans, or if I should just make plans on my own.”
But you should keep in mind that I am closing in on sixty, and I am alone, so go figure if you should follow my advice.
Tris
Couldn’t agree more.
My last post got eaten, so I’ll restate. I think he does love you and scares the pants off him. Maybe because it’ll force a decision on his part, or he was just unprepared for the depth of the feeling, or he is unclear as to how you feel and afraid to ask. *
One of you needs to step up and say what you feel.
*[sub]or course, I could be wrong[/sub]
Thanks, Sarah. I don’t even know how to thank you for that then to say that I fear for the state of the human race when evolution hasn’t taught men to fall madly in love with two such fantastic women as ourselves. And you’re right about the B&J, I hadn’t stocked up yet. But the new double CD Ani Difranco CD is also on the self-medication agenda.
Here’s the thing, Tris and spooje: I don’t even care if he loves me anymore. If he runs like a little boy like this, then he’s not ready to love me. As I once stated to my ex-boyfriend (who loved me, not vise versa): “I’m not easy to deal with. I’m complicated, and you won’t be able to predict or explain what I’ll do. If you want to deal with me, you have to be prepared to deal with all of me.” If he’s not ready to deal with his OWN emotions, Buddha knows he’s not ready to deal with mine. Besides which, we can’t be together. So baring my soul to him MAY alienate him enough so that I never see him again, but will NOT lead to a steady, committed relationship. So what’s the point?
Besides which, I don’t think he loves me. I think he COULD love me. But if he loved me, he wouldn’t scamper back to his apartment after sleeping with me. He’d call me to see how I was. If he loved me, he’d want to be around me, not just %$#@ me. I think he does care about me, and I think he may have started to see that I had feelings for him, and cared enough to not want me to get hurt more then inevitable. Maybe I’m wrong, but it’s time to stop being Pollyanna and start being Dorothy Parker.
Hey everyone! I just want to say that I am pretty much going through the teenage (yes, I may be a teenager, but PLEASE don’t think less of me for it) version of what Swiddles is dealing with. Your comments helped me too. Thanks!
~ Monica
“So what’s the point?”
Swiddles, honey, the point is that if you don’t swing the bat, you never get a hit. You can’t just wait for a walk, you have to swing for the fences, just this once.
Screw him, I could care less if he has the feathers to make this sucker fly, or is doomed to flee when no one pursues for the rest of his wretched life! It is you I am worried about. ASK! Dump the chips on the table, and make the bet. You are guaranteed to loose if you say nothing and, worse yet, twenty years from now you will still wonder how much you lost. The only way to know is to call the hand, and see his openers. Yeah, you put your emotions at risk, for sure, and you could get hurt bad.
You get over shit like that, eventually. It sucks, and there is no denying that something gets taken from you. But the hurting and something getting taken is gonna happen either way, so you have to risk a bit more hurt, and put yourself in the running for the great big payoff. The cost is the same, really, aside from a few extra tears, and maybe a gallon or two of Hagendaas.
We are talking about the potential for TRUE LOVE, here! Please believe me when I tell you, the one you never asked is the most enduring broken heart you will ever know. So ask.
The fact that the best it can be will have to wait for him to go away and come back later doesn’t really matter if it is true love, only if it is a passing fancy. You are making your plans based on the expectation of bad news.
Sorry to rant, but man, this is the stuff that poetry is written about.
Tris
Nacho’s wrote
The reason for this is pretty simple, these girls themselves don’t see how awesome and incredible they are to themselves and then date jerks or border line assholes because they feel it is the best they can do for themselves.