The above reported by my friendly local swedish TV text service, source french AFP. Since I have not been able to find this online yet i provide my feeble attempt at translation below:
So this is obviously a preliminary, since it hasn’t reached CNN, Reuters etc as of yet. I guess information will surface with time.
This incident, added to other incidents during the last couple of days, seem to imply that support for the US presence is weak, or mixed at best.
The actions of the US soldiers (with the limited information available to me as of yet) suggests that they may not have the means, nor the understanding to handle Iraqi sentiments and swing public opinion in their favor.
I know that there’s enjoyment to be had from being first to bat on an issue, but maybe we ought to consider waiting to launch threads based on breaking news items until at least two independent sources have confirmed them.
I do acknowledge that as of now this is only reported by AFP (and I also noted so in my OP). It may surface as something else than it seems now, or it may surface as something that never happened. If so happens I will retract my meditation.
I am providing this information as is. Yes, in part I admit, for the satisfaction of having the first crack at this. And you did get it here before you could find it at FoxNews.
But really, if the information proves to be correct, the thread will live, otherwise it will die. Save some ranting at my expense
Reuters, CNN, FoxNews and The Washington Post still don’t seem to be reporting this at all at the moment, although an incident is confirmed by the US military.
Maybe my searching skills are faulty, anyone else? Or is this not deemed newsworthy by the above organizations?
Yahoo news are reporting this:
It’s basically the same story and arab testimonys as above, but with these added comments from US sources:
(My Bolding)
The New York Times actually has this event as a top level headline at the moment.
The story includes this radicaly new account of events from Col. Andrew P. Frick in Mosul. (Interestingly enough in severe contradiction to the statements from navy commander Charles Owens in the Yahoo story):
(My bolding)
This NY tímes story also includes this new account of the events leading up to the shooting. No sources are given.
The way this is told, and the information it includes, sounds to me like it comes from US military sources, though.
These accounts from Iraqis are also reported in the NY times story:
Basically the same as before.
So things seem to be very confused at the moment. Some US sources say one thing, other US sources say another, and Iraqi sources are saying something completely different.
Furthermore I thought this incident was headline stuff. The New York Times too, obviously. Yet at the moment reporting seems to be fragmentary.
<SARCASM>Those damn American soldiers. Trigger happy yet again! Certainly they were fired upon, but the dead left behind were certainly from those undisciplined GIs and not from the level headed, even tempered Iraqi gunmen…</SARCASM>
There are presently two versions from the US military. One states that american soldiers were fired upon from the roof. The other states that the american soldiers were fired upon from the crowd, and eventually returned fire. What do you make of this, Slayer? (see above)
US officials stated yesterday that they would not conduct investigations of civilian casualties (for practical reasons). So we don’t know as of yet if any autopsy will be made.
It seems unlikely that if the soldiers were just firing at the roof their would have been so many casulties. One might suggest the people on the roof who fired at the US soldiers also fired at the hostile to US crowd but what would the motive be?
I think that the “roof version” seem a little bit unlikely, right now. It is not supported by the statements of Col. Frick (US officer in charge during the incident). Frick clearly implies that the soldiers fired at the crowd. It is also not consistent with the statements of the Iraqi people in the crowd.
Speculation: The american soldiers are fired upon. There is confusion from where the shots came. Some think from a roof, some think from the crowd. Some soldiers fire at the crowd.
That is the only explanation I can find for all these different accounts.
Damn, after extensive searches for this particular news item, Ive come to the conclusion that tabloids just rehash stories on the wire with their own spin. I saw at least 10 newspapers that had the same basic facts from the original AFP article but with different added editorials and some dubious facts. I can see why Reuters, CNN, FoxNews, ABCNews and The Washington Post have not run this yet. They have absolutely no facts other than what AFP has upload. There was one item that was interesting by I couldnt find it again. It was reported that all journalists (except for the the AFP one evidently) were beng turned back from the hospital where the dead and wounded were taken by angry demonstrators and family members. So much for a chance of an autopsy. Sorry, RandySpears but i could not access the NYTimes article you linked which seemed to have more information than what is currently online. I therefore cannot comment on the contradiction of stories by military sources.
TheMemeWarrior. The snipers fire upon the US soldiers on the ground. Lets say in about 10 to 15 seconds, the order is given to fire back, so now at least half a dozen rifles fire at the sniper position. The snipers would have a clear shot at first, but would have to duck and shoot without aiming, once return fire is given. Now, obviously, the snipers are bad shots to begin with if they cant hit a US soldier from an elevated position with no stress from return fire. When the US soldiers fire back, I dont think their accuracy went up. In fact, I think that they shot blindly down into where the crowd were scattering. 2 minutes of getting shot at and they disappear. Body count: 10 dead, 110 wounded. if each shot got a hit, thats four 30 round magazines (2 per sniper) if they were really bad shots they might have used 3 clips each and hit the same amount of people. Thats still well within the firing capabilities of an AK-47 in the span of 2 minutes.
I dont know, but when this came up, I just wasnt anxious to search and dig through the accounts to try to find facts I could twist to blame the American soldiers. Sure there are different accounts, jsut like if there was a shooting here in Washington. Different people remember things differently.
But I believe in the professionalism of American soldiers over the sporadic, ragtag bands still sniping. unless you can prove otherwise.
Sorry, but when this plays out, I think you will again find yourself grasping vapors when you really wanted something to blame upon the US Army.
