Agents Provocateur in Minneapolis Rioting?

[Paul_in_Qatar]

Let’s see, I want a factual answer, but probably we do not have enough information yet. It might end up as a Great Debate. I guess it is something I want to share. Honestly, I never know where to post stuff.

In any case, here is a video that seems to show white men in expensive (Identical?) gas masks and black clothing calmly destroying property in Minneapolis. It sure looks legit to me. But then again a lot of fake stuff looks legit nowadays.

I am eager to be talked down, but this seems like pretty good proof that the destruction of property was an organized effort by a handful of white people rather than a riot by black people.

What do you think?

[Paul_in_Qatar]

I just looked it up. The correct plural is Agents Provocateurs. Pardon my French.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

They look to me most like black bloc anarchists, who, ironically, are mostly white boys. The community-based anarchists I know, folks who build their ethos around mutual aid, loathe black-bloc anarchists.

Dressing all in black and smashing windows as a way of Sticking It To The Man in the middle of a protest is 100% in character for them. Their willingness to prioritize their own tactics over the tactics used by the folks in the community, even when it risks the lives of locals, makes them the opposite of reliable or helpful allies.

[Sicks_Ate]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

They look to me most like black bloc anarchists, who, ironically, are mostly white boys. The community-based anarchists I know, folks who build their ethos around mutual aid, loathe black-bloc anarchists.

Dressing all in black and smashing windows as a way of Sticking It To The Man in the middle of a protest is 100% in character for them. Their willingness to prioritize their own tactics over the tactics used by the folks in the community, even when it risks the lives of locals, makes them the opposite of reliable or helpful allies.

Reading that article, it doesn’t seem like “one dude with a hammer” is really their MO?

[Paul_in_Qatar]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

They look to me most like black bloc anarchists, who, ironically, are mostly white boys. The community-based anarchists I know, folks who build their ethos around mutual aid, loathe black-bloc anarchists.

Dressing all in black and smashing windows as a way of Sticking It To The Man in the middle of a protest is 100% in character for them. Their willingness to prioritize their own tactics over the tactics used by the folks in the community, even when it risks the lives of locals, makes them the opposite of reliable or helpful allies.

Thank you. This does seem more likely. Recreational rioters from out of town.

[Roderick_Femm]

@Paul_in_Qatar

Thank you. This does seem more likely. Recreational rioters from out of town.

I don’t think that’s what he said. They are intentional rather than recreational, i.e. they have an agenda they are following, and whether they are local or not is unclear since no-one could identify the individual(s) involved.

There were also photos of some white guys in masks and black clothing (but short sleeves I think) allegedly putting wood frames up in order to make a big fire, but I’m more skeptical about the legitimacy of that, they were only still photos and they might have been anywhere as far as I could tell. If they can actually be placed at the Minneapolis riots that would be a different story.

[Paul_in_Qatar]

The video I posted included the white guys stacking wood at the entrance to the department store.
All in all this seems to be part of the “accelerationist” idea. “Shooting into the mass” is another expression of this. The idea is to provoke a harsh reaction in order to hurry the Revolution. “Idea, Word, Spark. Revolution” and all that.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@Sicks_Ate

Reading that article, it doesn’t seem like “one dude with a hammer” is really their MO?

They more commonly go in groups, but they’re not exactly organized with military precision. It seems totally plausible to me that one asshole familiar with black bloc anarchism decided to grab a hammer and a purple gas mask and go to town, ignoring the “bloc” part of the idea.

[jnglmassiv]

A pallet of bricks was mysteriously delivered to a corner near a courthouse in Dallas. This guy tells it best:

r/PublicFreakout - Possible evidence of covert incitement? Who leaves a pile...

[China_Guy]

It’s kinda like the 1999 Seattle WTO protests. A group of anarchists started the window breaking and stone throwing and then faded away after they had kicked things off.

[Whack-a-Mole]

I doubt we can ever know for sure.

You start with legit protesters who 100% want to do a peaceful protest.

Then some agents provocateurs join in. You don’t need a lot. Just some to destabilize things.

Then you have your hoodlums. People happy to take advantage of the anarchy. Whether for fun or profit or both.

The thing is, you can have 1000 peaceful protesters and it only takes a dozen to mess it all up.

The groups that oppose such protests know this. It is trivially easy for them to mess them up…and they do.

[ZipperJJ]

Here’s a post from a friend of a friend who was at the protests in Cleveland today. From everything I’ve heard (I had a handful of friends who participated) it was peaceful most of the day. Until it wasn’t.

I was out there protesting. It was peaceful and powerful earlier on. At some point the crowd got down on one knee, we raised our fists and named those who have died because of police brutality. The longer I stayed, the more I noticed and watched those wanting to cause chaos…They were young. They were white. While the organizers of Black Lives Matter continue to encourage peace, some groups went astray.
A young white male walked in front of me carrying a hammer. Dude you came here with one objective in mind. To start shit.
So don’t judge the protest for what it became. The right intentions were there to begin with, other people created chaos.
Let’s not forget what the point was and still is. BLACK LIVES MATTER. Until then, we can’t all be free.

[China_Guy]

@Whack-a-Mole

The thing is, you can have 1000 peaceful protesters and it only takes a dozen to mess it all up.

If that many. Just a handful can start breaking windows and excite a feeding frenzy in the crowd. Any number of groups that want to co-opt the protests can do so.

Seattle called for a 5:00pm curfew today. Again, same thing, a handful of people want to start some shit.

Hopefully the cameras are rolling and capture who the folks are, and trace back to either extreme ideology or a pile of greenbacks.

[N9IWP]

I guess that few, if any, of those involved were wearing expensive lingerie

Brian

[puzzlegal]

@Paul_in_Qatar

Let’s see, I want a factual answer, but probably we do not have enough information yet. It might end up as a Great Debate. I guess it is something I want to share. Honestly, I never know where to post stuff.

In any case, here is a video that seems to show white men in expensive (Identical?) gas masks and black clothing calmly destroying property in Minneapolis. It sure looks legit to me. But then again a lot of fake stuff looks legit nowadays.

I am eager to be talked down, but this seems like pretty good proof that the destruction of property was an organized effort by a handful of white people rather than a riot by black people.

What do you think?

I saw one video of a middle aged white guy in a gas mask and a face shield methodically breaking windows with a hammer, as random black men try to stop him and videotape him.

Dunno whether he’s politically motivated, or whether he was hired by someone who wanted an insurance payout on a property that wasn’t bringing in revenue, or something I haven’t thought of. But it was weird and upsetting to watch. And he was obviously not aligned with the actual protesters.

[John_Bredin]

My guess is that in various places there are black-bloc anarchists and Trumpist start-a-race-war types out there. The yahoos attacking protestors (the Katniss Everdeen wannabe in Salt Lake City :rolleyes:) and reporters probably aren’t left-wingers. Attacking CNN headquarters sounds more right-wing than left-wing to me.

My first reaction to Trump’s “the looting starts, the shooting starts” tweet was that Trump knows his remarks are (veery) thinly-veiled calls-to-arms to his followers. He wasn’t telling the police to shoot, he was telling MAGAts to jump in pickups with their shotguns and rifles and take action. :eek:

[elbows]

They are making mayhem because they believe, rightly, white people won’t come out to join in, if there’s a chance of rioting or looting.

My money is on outside provocateurs.

[F.U.Shakespeare]

@puzzlegal

I saw one video of a middle aged white guy in a gas mask and a face shield methodically breaking windows with a hammer, as random black men try to stop him and videotape him.

Dunno whether he’s politically motivated, or whether he was hired by someone who wanted an insurance payout on a property that wasn’t bringing in revenue, or something I haven’t thought of. But it was weird and upsetting to watch. And he was obviously not aligned with the actual protesters.

Was it this one (“Umbrella Man”)?

And what’s the deal with the umbrella? I would think someone like that would want to be inconspicuous.

[Ludovic]

@elbows

They are making mayhem because they believe, rightly, white people won’t come out to join in, if there’s a chance of rioting or looting.

And furthermore, if they will be (rightly, at this point) seen as more likely, strictly statistically, to be an outside agent than an ally themselves.

[Paul_in_Qatar]

@F.U.Shakespeare

Was it this one (“Umbrella Man”)?

And what’s the deal with the umbrella? I would think someone like that would want to be inconspicuous.

I suppose it is a means of hiding from cameras. Still this fool ought to be easy to catch in these days of drones and license plate readers.

One fellow has been arrested. He took video of himself handing out “bombs,”