Ankh_Too
I do think it is an interesting anthropological question, and I respect your debating of that point. But mystic is just looking for things to delegitimize Israel and the Ashkenazim. The core concept of Zionism is for a homeland for the Jews. Jewish means Jewish by descent or conversion, and a converted Jew is absolutely no different than one by descent. mystic has been ignoring this core premise and is arguing that descent is the only thing that counts in Judaism. So debating descent with him is just feeding into his fallacy.
Just out of curiosity, are you a geneticist or a biologist?
This Jewish ethnicity stuff is all interesting and new to me, for the most part.
Does any of this apply to Mr. Cohen? The guy who mystic said could not form rational thoughts because of his pro-Semitism. Keep in mind that Mr. Cohen was arguing a tangential point dealing with the compostition and funding of the anti-war movement, not the sacredness of the Holy Land or anything like that.
I think Poland - in part for personal family reasons - should be free from Communist domination. Am I still capable of forming a rational opinon on European economic policy, for example? Meaning, of course, my opinons on Poland do not preclude that, correct?
This would be the revisionist view of the Six Day War pushed by the Arabs who were amassing for an attack, got surprised, and lost, right?
This kills me, because I used to rip on Israel all the time. I realized how imbalanced my view was. Now, here I am arguing on this side. Long strange trip, etc…
No. It is (or was) asserted by Koestler. No serious historian (and I would not saddle the popularist, Koestler, with that label), believes that the Ashkenazim are “descended” from the Khazars. Not only do the genetic studies argue against it, the actual historical records of the Jews of Central Europe argue against it. That the Khazars existed and that their nobles converted to Judaism has been long recognized. (There have been a few virulently anti-Jewish hatemongers who have pretended that the information was “suppressed”–and quoted articles in the Encyclopedia Hebraica to prove their point!) However, even granting that a few remnant Khazar/Jewish communities continued to exist among the Rus and a few others moved into the valley of the Danube after the destruction of Khazaria, there is simply no evidence that the documented movement of Jews eastward from the Germanic lands failed to occur.
And, of course, as edwino has pointed out, the ethnic background of any Jewish group is irrelevant to any discussion of the state of Israel.
How do you figure this? The interior ministry uses ethnic compositon in citizenship issues. Ethnicity is of utmost importance to the state of Israel in determining its populace. Also, recently revoking the citizenship of an Arab in Israel, an unprescidented move. Ethnic background not relevant to the state of Israel? You are making a joke?
And this, the normal response to the rest of the world from the US.
Nice to meet you Mystic2311 . Good to know that not everyone on this board pro-semitic.
I have said it before here. If anyone in the middle east should be invaded, it is Israel. They pose a much larger threat to the rest of the world than Iraq. It is a threat to the Arab world though and they don’t garner much respect around these parts.
So tell us, mystic2311, just who perpetrated 9/11? Space aliens? The Boogey-Man? Screaming Mimis? oh wait, here’s a thought, maybe, just maybe, it was the Mossad! The Jews did it! You know, all those darn Jews stayed away from work in the WTC that day, right?
Ugh. Anything you have said, and probably anything you will say going foward, is being summarily dismissed, by most people, because of such an ignorant post.
Bzzt about the Interior Ministry using ethnicity. If Yassir Arafat converts to Judaism tomorrow, and gets an Orthodox rabbi to sign off on him, and claims Right of Return the day after, he is as much a citizen of Israel as Ariel Sharon. There is no Jewish ethnicity, in the true sense of the word. There is a shared tradition amongst Jews, but tradition has nothing to do with ethnicity. Travel to Israel someday, and you will find a very multiethnic society. With Ethiopian Jews and the “Black Hebrews” and Yemenite Jews and Russians and even a smattering of Cochin Jews from India and Jews from China and Japan, along with the Arab Jews, Sephardim, and Ashkenazim makes for quite the rainbow.
Wazzup Hank!?! Nice to meet you too. So far there are only 3 rational people on SDMB, you, me and a guy named 2 thick. Everybody else is brainwashed imperialist capitalist pro-zionist shills. This place is like a circle jerk of ingrown toenails echoing each others insipid shallow analysis like a bunch of retarded ducks. There I said it. We should start our own discussion board called The Twisted Dope–Coz the Real World is too Complicated for these Straight Dopes to Figure Out.
The ignorance is all yours, dipshit. Do you have evidence that Osama Ben Laden perpetrated 9-11? If so you should put in your resume to the FBI and take Bob Mueller’s job. He has publicly admitted that he has no such evidence.
If you mean by revisionist that the truth is finally coming out. The truth is, Israel attacked Egypt in 1956 and in 1967. Any justification for the attack is bullshit. How do you know the Egyptians were amassing for an attack? Do not the military forces of a country have the right to be inside the borders of that country? You believe any bullshit Zionist propaganda. An attack is an attack. In 1974, Israel was attacked. In the other wars, Israel was the aggressor. Where do you think the current Bush policy of pre-emptive strike on Iraq comes from? It is an Israeli policy. Even Hitler, when he wanted to invade Poland, had his soldiers dress up in Polish army uniforms and attack a radio station. Even Hitler recognized that you need a valid excuse to attack a country. The Israelis have gone beyond that.
Hank Fescue:"Most notable of these prejudicial practices is the ban against Palestinians serving in the Israel Defense Forces. "
Uh, bullshit. Non-Jews are not required to do compulsory miliatary service. However there are still Muslims and Christians who voluntarily enlist. From [url=http://www.jewishsf.com/bk020118/i17.shtml]this article**:
mystic2311:*The truth is, Israel attacked Egypt in 1956 and in 1967. Any justification for the attack is bullshit. How do you know the Egyptians were amassing for an attack? *
Well besides closing the Straits of Tiran and Aqaba to Israeli shipping (basically an act of war in itself)…
But here are some speeches from Nasser before the war started.
From March 8 1967:
Mind you that’s after then Foreign Minister Golda Meir had asked to meet with Arab leaders to negotiate a settlement. Yeah those Israelis are just too darn warlike
After Nasser ordered the United Nations Emergency Force to leave the Sinai (where they were acting as a buffer) he said this on May 18 1967:
Truly words of peace and not a hint of aggression.
On May 20th Syrian Defence Minister chimed in with
Notice that ‘initiate the act of liberation itself’ part.
Once the blockade was up Nasser continued with more threatening speeches. On May 27th he said
The next day he said
King Hussein then stepped in to the fray. On May 30 he stated:
President Abdur Rahman Aref of Iraq also stated:
Emphasis mine.
Of course along with all of this talk Arab armies were massing on the borders of Syria and Egypt. Approximately 250 000 troops were mobilised (half in the Sinai who were moved in on 1967) and more than 2000 tanks and 700 aircraft were made ready for the invasion.
Here’s Egypts statement on the mobilisation of troops and their movement into the Sinai (you know, towards Israel) that they issued on May 15th 1967:
Ahh isn’t that just heartbreaking- the bigot doesn’t like us.
Keep ranting about “the Jews” maybe you can draw a few more bigots for indentification.
Feel free to leave at any time-- some has already started a message board for you- its called Stormfron-t (typo intentional) you will fit in real well.
Sure. Everyone knows that for centuries (until 1948) Jews had always longed to return to their Ugandan homeland and that whenever they prayed (until 1948 that is), they always faced Kampala.
My favorite part of the bible is when, even after Moses parts Lake Victoria to lead the Jews to freedom, they build a golden chimpanzee to worship, and G-d punishes them by making them wander through the mountain highlands for 40 years.
