The Northern Alliance entered Kabul . . .because it was ABANDONED??? Either this is a brilliant trap set by the Taliban . . .or they are the biggest bunch of puss boys on the planet!!!
Frankly, while I am relieved that Kabul was taken easily and with minimal bloodhsed, frankly I’m a little dissapointed in the Taliban. I thought these guys were big, rough tough suicide bombers and hardened Afghan warriors!!! I mean, they aren’t going to put up ANY fight???
Well, I guess there’s a big difference between bullying your women and taking on someone who can actually stand up to you and fight back. The Taliban remind me of a bunch of wife-beaters: they get the shit kicked out of them all day, so they come home and take it out on their defenseless spouses.
What next? We capture Osama bin-Laden dressed in a bhurkah??? WHAT A BUNCH OF DICKLESS SISSIES!!!
I think that that that the US, in cooperation with many of the strongest militaries in the world, completely blowing the Taliban the fuck up, may have had something to do with their, eh, strategic withdrawel.
The Taleban are not suicide bombers. You’re confusing issues.
As to the supposed cowardice, according to all reports (I refer to reports by al-Jazeera, Iranian radio and BBC Arabic Service – with on the ground reporters who speak the language) they have withdrawn to more defensible positions in an orderly manner – although the peripheral militias are certainly peeling off. Indeed, the withdrawal was predicted by Northern Alliance commanders to Jazeera before it even happened insofar as both sides understood that the Taleban did not want to fight on hostile (esp. in re the populace) not easily defended terrain.
It may be nice emotional fun to post things like this, but without much real basis. Sissies the Afghans are not. If you think so, buy a ticket to Pakistan and set out for Qandahar.
Hell, it is easy to talk the talk when nobody stands up to you. I think that the Taliban were expecting the same sort of half assed effort that the Russians gave when they were in Afghanistan.
Perhaps I have played too many wargames, but a withdraw is not necessarily a sign of weakness. A withdraw allows you to consolidate your power, and perhaps lure your opponent into following you. Although consolidating your power might not be a good thing in wake of the American bombardments.
One real Taliban advantage of pulling out forces from Kabul is that they survived to fight another day. Had they continued to be bombed by the US and attacked by the Northern Alliance, things could have been a lot worse. Better to head for the mountains and fight guerilla style has they had done for years upon years.
The real victory in taking Kabul is the morale burst for those opposed to the oppressive Taliban. The fact that men are shaving their beards and women removing facial covering are tastes of freedom that are making it difficult for the Taliban to keep control. This is a battle to be won not on the battlefield but in the hearts of the Afghan people.
It’s unrealistic to hope, hope, hope that they’re “sissies”. Most of them have been fighting in one way or another, for one side or another, since they were teenagers.
Plus, what we will eventually come up against (should we pursue this) will be the subset of the most concentrated, most committed, and best equipped, the others having departed for greener pastures during the relentless bombing campaign. And they will have chosen a defensible position in advance. I believe that if we do have to go in and get them, it will be bloody.
I admit that it is somewhat satisfying to hear reports that men are shaving beards and women doffing cover in a Kabul deserted by the Taliban. We have to remember that if we choose to go and fight them conventionally, they will likely make us pay dearly for the priveledge.
Of course if you think that applies to the bloody ten years of village by village civil war which Afghanistan has experienced, you’re an ignorant fool.
Half-assed effort? If you’re talking politics, perhaps yes. If you’re talking military effort, well what does half-assed mean? Willingness to slaughter whole villages with bombardments? Savage, scorched earth warfare with little regard for civilians? Immense application of force with little sense of a political solution? All these things could describe the Soviet war in Afghanistan. Or even their current action in Chechnya.
If you think that somehow the USA has proven “badder” the the Soviets, you know nothing of the war.
We’ve been more effective in the realm of targetting the right people (with mistakes to be sure) and getting Afghans (in the North where the Taleban were already hated) on our side. But for pure violence…
Again, all reports I heard indicate a staged withdrawal under cover of darkness to more easily defended terrain and more friendly populations. Not sissies, good military tactics given their limitations.
In my view, “more easily defensible positions” isn’t quite appropriate. I think it’s more like “moving to whatever’s left.”
During the war with the Russians, they were getting resupplied. That’s not happening anymore. Moreover, they can’t really hide. Anything moving, living, or emitting electromagnetic radiation can be found. Also, the populace itself will be providing the “humint.” That wasn’t true of the Russian incursion.
While it may be possible to live in a cave during an Afghanistan winter, it’s more than just merely problematic to conduct an effective war from such strongholds.
Supplies can only last so long, especially when you can’t even start a campfire to warm yourself or cook your rice without risking a hellfire missle joining you for breakfast.
Even guerilla actions would be of limited effectiveness since, every time you initiate an action, you use up irreplaceable materiel and manpower.
Let’s hope the Taliban recognizes this and gives up.
The Iraqi army this ain’t. They’ve proven their fighting mettle over more years than you would care to count.
I’ll breathe a little easier if, over the course of time, this indeed proves to not be some kind of strategy where our forces are hit with the Afghan equivalent of the Tet Offensive, primarily from the south.
I’d like to think that these soldiers are beginning to recognize that the Taliban is doomed and not worth fighting for.
So, what are they planning to do? Lay down their weapons, intermingle with the populace, and use the Shaggy Defense?
In my professional opinion I would say the retreat is a sign not of a strategic fickle move by a group of highly trained soldiers, but a “OH SHIT! Those are big fucking bombs! Not only can I not hear anymore, my pants have been soiled for three days lets get the fuck out”
Then unfortunately they will arrive in Kandahar and find that the only thing they can do there is park their 1987 Toyota pick up on the HUGE parking lot designed and implemented by several hundred US bombs.
“UHH OHH” Mr.Taliban says “What the fuck do we do now? all the women can see us through their newly unveiled heads and they are realizing that we have all made the trip back from Kabul with soiled pants and we stink like holy akbar shit!”
Not good. NO NO! The taliban are a forcible group who thought that the US was just a bunch of sissy bastards that had no idea how to fight. Well when and if we do start to have combat missions, they will most likely add to the soil already infecting their hemp undies, and throw their hands up in surrender! This of course only in a perfect world. Most likely the stronger more experienced Taliban will indeed put up a fight, but they will not have the numbers or the defenses yet or ever again to even give us a good training mission.
Last I heard many of the younger Talibanis are scattering into the desert, and melting into the crouds. Not wanting to continue anymore. Sure there will be the die hards who want to fight but they will most likely not last another couple weeks…We’ll see. Wuss
Let’s not forget that the locals are rejoicing with the withdrawl of the Taliban! Supposedly the local barber shops are jammed with men wanting shaves! So, I’d say that no matter where the Taliban goes and regroups, there’s going to be large numbers of locals willing to help flush them out. I keep hearing George C. Scott as Patton, screaming for weapons to arm the Germans so that they can take out the Russians for some odd reason.
The majority of the Taliban’s fighters are not Taliban per se, but allied tribal levies. Their support is conditional, and as someone pointed out, fickle. It appears that once the Taliban started taking serious losses and suffering battlefield reverses, some of that conditional support melted away. Not necessarily defections ( as many of these Pashtun tribes have little affection for the NA ), but retreating to their home districts to defend their tribal assets.
The hardcore Taliban, deprived of these auxiliaries, likely found themselves in a situation where they felt that it was too costly ( or more likely, impossible ) to hold on to urban centers where they aren’t very popular to begin with ( i.e. Kabul, Herat ). So I imagine they did exactly what the Mujahadeen did in response to the Soviets - Pull back to mountain redoubts where they have more support and will be very difficult to extract.
I should note that this calvacade of events is not unprecedented. I seem to recall that the military rise of the Taliban started with a prolonged battle for Jalalabad ( on the road between Peshawar and Kabul ). After that victory, there was a second prolonged battle for Kabul. After that, the massive defections began and the opposition collapsed like a paper-bag in the south. The NA retreated to their “home territory” in the north and the Taliban began the steady process of grinding them down up there. But the NA ( or what would become elements of the NA ) really did collapse almost overnight after Kabul was lost.
I’d like to think their absence had something to do with having their lungs sucked out through their nostrils by our “Daisy Cutters”. There’s nothing like vacuum bombs to create a power vacuum. As much as I’d like to feel horrified by what these bombs do to people, I’ve been far too revolted by what has happened to Afghan women to feel a scintilla of sympathy for anyone who would perpetuate such abuse. Welcome to paybacks American style, Taliban.
If I had to venture a guess, I would say that bin Laden is making a desperate effort to slip out of the country, and that US special forces are working with equal fervor to prevent that from happening.
According to today’s USA Today, some members of the Taliban are talking about turning Bin Laden over to the US. Whether or not they’ll actually be able to do it, is another story.
I keep hearing George C. Scott as Patton, screaming for weapons to arm the Germans so that they can take out the Russians for some odd reason.