All y'all are dumbf***s

The BBQ Pit
1

I saw this story online today.

The gist of it, if you don’t care to read it (and I don’t know if registration is req, or not) is that two boys have plead guilty to assault for “brooming” up to 18 younger boys at summer camp. As part of the plea deal the indictment has been reduced from 18 counts to one. Considering that one of the boys pleading guilty is the son of the State Senate Majority Leader my cynicism is already jumping when I see that the story has this son of privelege presumably getting away with what sounds to me (on first pass) anal rape.

You see, my immediate definition of “brooming” would be having a broomstick, or similar object, shoved up some poor schlub’s rectum. And I was about to get pretty pissed off that any judge would let this be excused to any degree.

Well, my immediate definition of “brooming” was wrong. From the article:

This change does not mean that the act is suddenly acceptable, but it seems a Hell of a lot less serious than some of the parents quoted in the article are making it seem. The parallels to rape are being draw that I would have expected with an actual anal rape, and calls for sexual assault charges.

So, basically, I’m here to call for a nice Pitting of the kid(s) involved with this for abusing their authority to deliberately humiliate the campers in their charge. That’s reprehensible, and dispicable. While I don’t think that you are guilty of sexual assualt, you are guilty of more than one single count of something. If this plea deal holds, I hope that you take it as an extraordinary mercy, not something you are entitled to recieve because of your father’s position.

I also want to Pit the kid’s State Senate Majority Leader father: If you’ve allowed your position to be used to force the criminal justice system to give your son a bye you’re a despicable bastard. And I hope you pay for it come the next election. And at the moment, any time a charge count goes from 18 to one, I tend to suspect that behind-the-scenes leverage was applied. At this point, I believe it’s up to you to prove that you didn’t influence things.

Finally, to those families and family lawyers who are claiming sexual assualt as being the appropriate charge for this incident: You’re sounding like idiots. What happened was wrong. Humiliating. And should be punished. But it was not sexual assault. By making that comparison you’re weakening the rest of your case, by leaving the idea that if you’re going to exaggerate for shock effect on part of your accusations, you might do it for all of them.

Decry the perception of cronyism all you want. Decry the way that two priveleged boys seem to be getting a bye from the criminal justice system. Don’t exaggerate the real wrongs done to your boys into something that didn’t happen. If for no other reason than it’s likely to leave your sons with the idea that it did happen. With all the emotional and psychological trauma that can entail.

2

They should string the broom-wielding ass defilers up by their balls!

3

Isn’t this just the kind of stuff that happens at camp? Dont people get wedgies and flippers and rear admirals all the time? geeez

4

If it were from other kids, I’d agree with you, Bear_Nenno. When it’s the camp counselors doing it, I think it does become actionable.

(If you want to talk hazing in general, I’d be glad to have a different thread going about that. But I suspect the best place for that sort of discussion to happen would be the Pit - it’s a rather emotional issue on all sides.)

5

I would what those writers could have done with some stories from my younger days? Good Lord. That is horrible to spin it that way. What are we trying to turn kids into anyway?

In my day, if somebody “broomed” you, you just kicked their ass. These days, it would be 2 counts of felony sexual assault for one and an aggravated assault charge for the other with maybe some mayhem counts as well.

6

Holy shit. We used itching powder, buckets of water, dead fish and guts, live crawdads, vaseline and cheap perfume to fill sleeping bags. And that was long before anyone crawled into them at night. When the lights went out it got interesting. And we were all victims. Including the scout leaders. (Never been to a summer camp, but probably similar in many ways.)

Looking back, being wrapped up in my bag and getting poked in the butt with a stick would have been downright comfy.

It (used to be) a right of passage. Hazing that never harmed anyone other than a few hours of discomfort or annoyance. Boys being boys, as it were. Everyone got hit, and by the next day we were laughing our asses off retelling the “torture” of the previous night. Every one of us. Hell, 20+ years later I can still laugh just thinking about those nights we tormented each other. Not out of intimidation, but trying to one-up the rest of the guys.

Yes, yes, I know there will be some telling of permanant scars because they felt they were being picked on for a variety of reasons. I’m talking about the innocent mischief boys do. Stuff that, despite the movement to oversensitize males, makes us men. Dealing with adversity, coming up with ways to retaliate in non-injurious ways, ways to allow the instinct to better our peers to develop.

When I saw the “Brooming” this morning, I assumed the news story was going to be along the lines of a recent immigrant being abused by the cops. Headline writers can be pretty good in getting a link clicked.
And a state senator from Arizona’s kid being in the priveledged class? Did the OP mean the family? Or that AZ state senators are priveledged?

7

I was a camp counselor for six years back in the 80’s. We never felt the need to haze or “initiate” the campers in any way. We just taught them stuff like canoeing and building campfires and latrines etc.

I hate that frat-boy shit. Maybe it was because the camp was co-ed that hazing wasn’t a part of the rituals. Thank God.

Why does humiliation have to a part of what should be a character-building experience? There are so many positive things you can teach to young minds in the camp setting. Stuff like this is just sad and reflects on those leaders sorely lacking in imagination.

8

You did see, duffer where these boys being charged are 18 and 19? And were in charge of middle school aged boys? In a stable, known group, like a Scout troop, the age difference isn’t going to mean that much. In a summer camp full of strangers the difference in capabilities between an 11 yo and an 18 yo makes it hard for me to accept the idea that this was simply roughousing. It sure sounds, to me, like some assholes taking advantage of their power to torment people who can’t strike back.

If this were a case of HS kids roughhousing with other HS kids, I would agree that the charges are insane. Heck, I can even see arguments that the charges for what did happen are excessive. I am not persuaded, but I can see the arguments.

The age difference and the abuse of a position of authority take it from simple hijinks, or even simple hazing, into something different.

Perhaps I have a misguided view of Arizona State politics, but I suspect that to be elected majority leader in even the State Senate, one has to have both family wealth, and extensive contacts in the legal and political communites. If that isn’t a priveledged existence, what would you consider one to be?

Oh, yeah, it also counts, if one’s parent can get eighteen counts of assualt dropped to one (And the consequences taken out of the realm of felony to the realm of misdemeanor.) by talking to his friend, the judge, or the DA.

9

In my case it was never about humiliation. “Hazing” has become another of those words bastardized into something narrow and sinister.

We learned canoeing, archery, fishing, fire-building, cooking, etc. The pranks (as they are more likely to be understood) were part of a bonding and outlet for what comes naturally to young men. Namely, the instinct to begin to assert oneself in the world. That’s why boys are just naturally more aggressive in the pre- and teen years. It’s natural. Even if you want to make the camp co-ed.

And it’s not just camping trips or summer camp. It’s dodgeball. It’s King-of-the-Hill. It’s building the highest ramp to jump your bike off. It’s having bottle-rocket fights. It’s shooting your friend in the ass with a BB gun when he least expects it.

There are a few that get seriously maimed or killed. Just as there have been for centuries. I’d have to look into something though when it comes to boys getting hurt jumping ramps into briar patches. How many of them die? And how many wearing helmets and knee pads get run over by minivans filled with soccer players on their way to play a game that isn’t scored.

Call me a knuckle-dragger, a brute, unenlightened. Males have a need to determine hierarchy, and it begins at the age we’re discussing here. For all the talk of naturists, it’s stunning how many want to deny nature. Telling a 12 year old to stop trying to get one-up on a buddy or foe is as futile as telling a gorilla to stop beating its chest or a squirrel to stop hoarding nuts.

A Utopian world may be ever-peaceful and calm. And you’re not in any way wrong to hope for it. But you have 50,000+ years of evolution to fight. Hope you brought a lunch.

10

And if you *did *bring a lunch, some fucker will swipe the sandwich and replace it with a sponge just to watch you get all pissed off and disappointed.

What?! * I* never did that. :smiley:

11

duffer as long as you’re not using your experience to defend the idiots described in this story - I don’t disagree.

Roughhousing, horseplay, and dominance games among teens are all natural things.

This is part of why I’d suggested having another thread opened about hazing, specifically.

12

I don’t know… that bandwagon has become so crowded these days. :wink: I kid, I kid.

That stuff begins at 18 or 19? Bullshit. If the 11-year-olds had done it to other campers their age, I’d accept that explanation. We’re talking about college-age guys here. They’re not horsing around with their peers, they’re doing it to kids they have authority over. And some of those kids were in elementary school. It’s unacceptable. Clifton Bennett admitted in his letter that the brooming was done to humiliate and insult the boys. I’ve heard of much worse, but I don’t see a lot of jovial male bonding in this story.

13

I first wrote (in this response) that I wasn’t comparing the two situations. Then I deleted it realizing that I was, in fact, comparing them. As I was in the previous posts. I was hijacking your thread with a societal view I should have posited in my own OP if I wanted to carry it on. Maybe I will, maybe I won’t.

But I won’t do it in this thread anymore. My apologies.

14

duffer, no apology needed.

If you choose to open a thread about hazing for talking about it generally, I’ll likely add my two cents. Though, your view as shown here is not so far from my own.

15

Not to mention poodle-balling.
Rear admirals?

16

This city boy, who only had a a couple of camping trips (I always preferred a solid roof and running water), is lost with both of these terms, and also flippers. Fight some ignorance for me, fellow Dopers, please.

17

Rear Admirals are a nonexistant scary-hazing-sounding thing madeup by Simpsons writers. Milhouse mentioned the “dreaded rear admirals” in one of the early episodes (how do you people always know the name and number of episodes???). There was much discussion about what it was, but as it turns out, they just made it up.

Flippers…
A flipper is when someone is bent over doing something and leaving themselves vulnerable and wide open for prime flippering. Bend at the knees folks, not the waist. If we ever caught someone bent over, we’d form a karate chop shape to our hand, driving it into their ass and yelled “FLIPPER”. Always sure to cause some laughs and startle the shit out of the victim. No pun intended.

Even though I’m all grown up, I still enjoy the 'ole, “Is my credit card good here?” That’s when you take your flat karate chop hand and slide it up their crack like a credit card through the CC machine. But when you do it, you gotta ask “Do I have any credit left?” or something like that.
… man, the classics.

18

Thanks, Bear. Fortunately I’ve avoided flippers, both receiving and giving or even witnessing. What a sheltered life I’ve led.

Last one…poodle balling?