Inspired by an earlier thread on making kick-ass pizza at home, I’ve been trying for weeks to perfect the crust. I’ve tried Alton Brown’s crust three times now, based on the rave reviews it got in that thread, but so far the crust hasn’t risen at all.
In this link here, there is a transcript of the entire episode where they deal with pizza dough. Alton Brown seems to be saying that the instant yeast he uses is different from Rapid Rise yeast (from Fleischmans). Also, he really doesn’t give a very good idea of what temperature the water should be.
Rapid Rise yeast and regular yeast are all that they carry at my supermarket. I’ve been to several sites on the 'Net that say they are the same thing.
The first two times I tried, I used hot water from the tap, which is certainly less than 120 degrees fahrenheit. The third time, I used a candy thermometer and got the temperature just so, 125 degrees. Nada.
Aside from the yeast, I knead by hand since I don’t have a stand mixer. It shouldn’t make a difference at all as to whether the dough rises, right?
I am firmly committed to making awesome pizza, so if I have to spend $250 on a stand mixer, I will, but I’d like to know that it’s necessary. I’ve been cooking for about twenty-five years and I’ve never needed one yet.
I keep my kitchen fairly cold for a kitchen. If it’s only 60 degrees in there when I’m mixing the dough, will that keep it from rising?
Also, if the dough is going to rise, when will I see it start to rise? So far I’ve been opening the fridge the next morning, about fifteen hours after I mixed the stuff, and saying, “Oh, maybe it’s still going to rise in the next three hours.”
Yes, a cold kitchen could affect things. Try letting it rise in the oven. (Turn the oven on low, then turn it off before you put the bowl in.) Make sure it isn’t sitting on bare metal in the oven and make sure the temp isn’t anything you wouldn’t want to sit in yourself.
125 is pretty hot for yeast. I use 90-110 for bread yeast. If you don’t have instant yeast, you do need to let it sit in the water for a minute or two.
Just because you just bought the yeast from the store doesn’t mean it’s brand-new. I have gotten bum yeast before. Mix up some of it with some sugar and warm water and see if you get bubbles within a few minutes.
If you’re run the tap until hot water comes out, then you’re probably getting the water too hot and killing the yeast. The water should be no warmer than 115F, FilmGeek’s range is good. If you let the yeast come to room temperature before mixing it into the water, that’s even better. Mix the yeast into the water before you get the other ingredients together to give it extra time to kick off.
Letting the dough rise in the frig overnight as Alton suggests does leave you with a good, thick crust. But it’s really not the traditional Italian style which is thin crust made fresh and allowed to rise about an hour and half to two hours before punching and tossing.
Arrgh! The hamsters ate my deliciously crusty post. Trying this again:
Two things might be going wrong based on what you’ve described.
You shouldn’t use hot water to mix your dough. Water temperature should range between lukewarm and sort of “comfortably warm” to your fingers. If it registers as anything close to “hot” to the touch, it’s too hot for the yeast. Too hot water = dead yeast.
What in the heck are you doing putting dough in the fridge before it’s risen? Dough should only be refrigerated to stop further rising. Cover your bowl with a damp cloth and tuck it into the warmest place in your house. 60 degrees is definitely cooler than you’ll want for optimal rising. Maybe put the bowl on top of the fridge, or a tall shelf, or on the clothes dryer while it’s running, or in your attic if yours collects heat. You get the idea.
It can sometimes help to mix everything but the salt together first, then add salt. Salt slows yeast down, and it can help to ensure that the yeast is fully “awake” first.
I use Fleischmans too, and it generally gets dough to double in 1-2 hours for a first rising.
To keep yeast fresh longer, store it in the freezer instead of a cupboard, if that’s what you’re doing.
I have never tried Alton’s recipe so I can’t speak to how he does it. I make pizza dough all the time. In my house anything left over is likely to end up as pizza, (fajitas, bar b que, meatballs, etc.)
I use either rapid rise or regular yeast but only use water that is 110 degrees. I wonder if 125 is too hot. Also, I add a tablespoon of sugar (brown or white) to the yeast and water and let if proof for 10 minutes before I add oil and flour.
I have never had any trouble getting it to rise, although I always use it the same time I make it, I don’t know how it would respond if I put it in the fridge first.
Before you buy the mixer, try some other dough recipes and see if you can find something you like that works for you.
Alton’s recipe uses a slow 24-hour rise in the fridge. I have tried it side-by-side with my standard recipe (from one of Wolfgang Puck’s books) and it really does make a difference.
That makes me think, though–how cold is your fridge? I’m guessing that if your fridge is cold enough, it will slow the yeast down too much.
I read through too quickly, didn’t parse. If Alton Brown says 125, he must know what he’s talking about. But that seems WAY too hot to me. I don’t go hotter than around 80ish or so. And 60 degrees will get you a very slow rise. I put my dough in a 90ish oven to rise.
But it’s been years since I did pizza dough; is Brown trying to keep it from rising? to make it thin and crispy?
Anyway, your biggest problem is probably that yeast will rise VERY slowly at 60 degrees.
I’d say the hot water is your culprit. As the Frugal Gourmet put it, the water should be warm, not AAAH!(hot) or EEK!(cold) but AAAaaahhhh…(warm).
Note also, that if you are not using Instant Yeast, you have to do like the mad french chef and bloom the yeast in warm water before adding to the flour. Instant yeast, per the show, is processed differently and can be added to the flour without blooming.
The refrigerator rise is to promote flavor via an exceptionally long rising time. If the temp is too low, though, you could just stall the process entirely. I’d try the tried and true room temp/warm oven method to get a more rapid rise, just to be sure you have working yeast.
I think Alton mixes his yeast in with the dry ingredients, then adds liquid. You can get away with using hotter water when you do that.
The only thing I can think of is that either your fridge is too cold, or you got a bad batch of yeast. I’ve never made Alton’s pizza crust, but I do sometimes make my great-grandmother’s Buttload of Buttermilk Biscuits (seriously, it makes some insane amount like 6 dozen biscuits) and I’ve never had a problem getting the dough to rise in the fridge.
I haven’t used instant yeast, but I bake bread twice a week. I always proof my yeast - putting the sugar and water that’s not warmer than 115 degrees. I mix those up and let it sit for 5 minutes. If the mixture gets a foamy head, it’s active.
I let my dough rise in a cold kitchen, and it does take longer. I put mine on top of the refrigerator, because heat rises and because I figure the frig generates some heat.
Alright, I just read through the ep (sort of). Alton says he raises it in the refrigerator for 24 hours and ends up 1 1/2 times it’s original size. Did you do that?
Maybe in houses where children have never lived. I’m sure I’ve read warnings dozens of times about turning down the hot water heater so as not to scald your children. In any case, my tap water doesn’t get any hotter than about 115, according to my thermometer.
I have re-read the label on my jar of yeast, and I had misunderstood part of it. Apparently the hotter water is for when you’re using this yeast (bread machine yeast) for Rapid Rise recipes. So I should be using just warm water, not hot. I just wish Alton Brown had given a temperature to shoot for.
The dough rises in the fridge, not on the counter. But I will raise the temp in my kitchen as I’m preparing the yeast.
I was eyeing stand mixers on eBay last night and coveting them, but nobody so far in this thread has recommended them. According to Alton Brown (and the only thing I know about this guy is that this is his pizza recipe; I’m not his groupie or anything), if I don’t use a stand mixer I have to knead the durn thing by hand for half an hour!
Thanks to everyone who has responded! I’ll try again this weekend.
Please, start simple: just to make sure you’re getting the yeast and dough done correctly, let it rise in a warm place in your house.
When you make sure that you’re not killing the yeast, then start getting fancy with things. If your fridge is too cold, or if you’re opening it and closing it, and disturbing the dough, you’re going to have problems.
I’ve been making pizza for years. I’ve made it hundreds of times, easy, and I’ve never let my dough rise in the fridge.
I use “Rapid Rise Yeast” and two hours is usually enough time to let it rise.
FWIW, the “Cooks Illustrated” people and the “Joy of Cooking” don’t put their pizza dough in the fridge, and Alton Brown has nothing on them.
Once you get it to work, then start playing around with it.
Only last Christmas did we finally get a hand mixer. I used to knead the dough for about 10 good hard minutes.
I don’t think that it comes out much better with the mixer, but it is easier.
We go through phases where we make pizza dough once a week. My wife makes cookies and whoopie pies occasionally. We’ll make mashed potatoes in it. So we like the stand mixer.
So get on eif you want. It’s a great tool, but, it’s not the panacea for your pizza dough issues.